White House Petition To Rescind Norinco Ban?

[nathan]

For now this is but pipe dream. A new president has to be in office that loves freedom of gun ownership and trading openly with the Red DRagon. THe Chinese will produce whatever it takes to please the American cravings be it real guns and ammo to kids toys. They can make it if theres a demand for it....

 

[Sam Cade]

Norinco builds a better 870 than Remington does.

Their 870 clones are of very good quality.
Think about the factors that allow that clone to be sold for less than $200 after being shipped from the other side of the planet and passing through importers, distributors and dealers before it gets to you.

If you want American manufacturing to be the quality it used to be then they need to have a little fire lit under their feet from competition.

Worked for the electronics industry.
Right?


Chinese manufacturing and trade practices are such that effective "competition" with them in certain areas (like the light manufacturing required of purely functional firearms) is impossible.

 

[Fremmer]

How about a Norinco Death Star?!?

Sure, the finish might be plain, and there may be some machine marks, but if it works...

 

[saturdaynightpolitics]

I think an online campaign would be a waste of time and I am not exactly sure why people think they should lobby the president; 1) he has proven he isn't interested in pro-gun anything and 2)petitions are effective at the local level, not when you are looking at a national electorate (you can get a million signatures and still only comprise less than 1% of the population).

Part B:
The Chinese guns would only be competing with low end makers like hi-point and Kel-tec and other importers like Braztech or some of the new Asian companies. I doubt this would really shake up the market anymore than the old 'Ring of Fire' group did when they started filling the cheap gun niche. If anything I think you would just end up with a lot more new comers to the sport wasting money on junk guns because of price point purchasing googles.

 

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by fiddleharp View Post
If there was a petition on the White House website asking to have the Clinton-Era ban on the importation of Norinco arms and ammunition rescinded, would you sign it?
No.

A.) On-line petitions are not a valid way to leverage your social capital since there is no mechanism (legal or otherwise) in place to transubstantiate your virtual signature into real power.

B.) The Communist Chinese have enough of our money and destroying the US American arms industry isn't in our best interest.

Absolutely correct answer. I go out of my way to not buy ANYTHING made in China; I am not always successful, but I have made great strides in certain areas, especially food and clothing and will extend that easily to ammo or guns from them. Supporting a country that hates us to save a few pennies is shooting yourself in the head.

 

[Davek1977]

Part B:
The Chinese guns would only be competing with low end makers like hi-point and Kel-tec and other importers like Braztech or some of the new Asian companies. I doubt this would really shake up the market anymore than the old 'Ring of Fire' group did when they started filling the cheap gun niche. If anything I think you would just end up with a lot more new comers to the sport wasting money on junk guns because of price point purchasing googles.

I disagree. While I don't see Norincos coming to our shores again anytime soon, I disagree completely that they would only fill the "Cheap gun" niche. How many Norincos have you handled? The vast majority I've handled, from 1911s to AKs to SKS's have all been quality firearms. In fact their AKs are often considered the "gold standard" others are compared to. Its hardly fair to lump them in the with Ring of Fire guns when they simply aren't comparable in any way. Its like comparing apples and bowling balls. All politics aside, Norinco knows how to make good guns at a low price point. Inexpensive yes, but not "cheap"......more along the lines of "excellent value for the dollar"

 

[Sam Cade]

All politics aside, Norinco knows how to make good guns at a low price point.

..and if they wanted to they could make much nicer guns at a higher price point.



That is $289 US.

Or a true SIG 226 clone for $320.

 

[tarosean]

Protecting American manufacturers through some arbitrary laws is not in our best interests either. If you want American manufacturing to be the quality it used to be then they need to have a little fire lit under their feet from competition.

You realize the main reason they are banned because the Norico importer was selling rocket launchers and fully automatic weapons to drug gangs. Among other weapon and secret deals to our adversaries. Not because of competition..

 

[itsa pain]

You realize the main reason they are banned because the Norico importer was selling rocket launchers and fully automatic weapons to drug gangs. Among other weapon and secret deals to our adversaries. Not because of competition..

And you believe that? Norinco would risk billions in sales to sell to gang members? Where were these rocket launchers used?

 

[itsa pain]

Absolutely correct answer. I go out of my way to not buy ANYTHING made in China; I am not always successful, but I have made great strides in certain areas, especially food and clothing and will extend that easily to ammo or guns from them. Supporting a country that hates us to save a few pennies is shooting yourself in the head.

Well you might as well throw out your computer cell phone etc if you do not want Chinese junk

 

[saturdaynightpolitics]

I disagree. While I don't see Norincos coming to our shores again anytime soon, I disagree completely that they would only fill the "Cheap gun" niche. How many Norincos have you handled? The vast majority I've handled, from 1911s to AKs to SKS's have all been quality firearms. In fact their AKs are often considered the "gold standard" others are compared to. Its hardly fair to lump them in the with Ring of Fire guns when they simply aren't comparable in any way. Its like comparing apples and bowling balls. All politics aside, Norinco knows how to make good guns at a low price point. Inexpensive yes, but not "cheap"......more along the lines of "excellent value for the dollar"

Fair enough, I will admit that I don't have much first hand experience with Nornico's products however I do have a fair amount of trigger time on other Chinese manufactured shotguns.

I suppose my comment wasn't fairly worded. I was trying to make the point that a lot of people new to the sport see these low priced guns, buy them, and then are stuck with them because of the low resale value and lack of public prestige (just not very eloquently).

There are plenty of good "value" friendly guns, I just don't think that Chinese imports will be threatening S&W, Ruger, or Freedom group guns anytime in the near future regardless of quality.

 

[CWL]

Ain't gonna happen.

Aside from the well-known sales of auto weaponry to US criminals (some considered a Chinese plot to destabilize US through crime.), but Norinco has continued to sell missile technologies to countries like Iran. Who knows what they're selling to other countries in Africa, Middle East and North Korea but Norinco manufactures missiles, tanks/IFVs and other sophisticated weaponry for the world market.

Norinco's clone firearms sales amount for a very tiny fraction of their overall sales revenue and they're not going to give-up their armaments empire (probably first precondition to enter US market) just to increase small arms sales into USA.

 

[goon]

I suppose my comment wasn't fairly worded. I was trying to make the point that a lot of people new to the sport see these low priced guns, buy them, and then are stuck with them because of the low resale value and lack of public prestige (just not very eloquently).

I've owned three Norinco SKS's. Two were military, one was made for the commercial market with a different magazine. The feed lips would get bent out of shape every 100 rounds or so and I'd have to fix them... but it did shoot very well.
The other two were boringly reliable. Depending on the gun, I'd think a Norinco would be OK. If I were in some third-world location with a Norinco AK as my primary protection, I wouldn't fret too much.

Still don't think we need them sold here though. We whine about the decline of our country and jobs going overseas, then we look for ways to put more Americans out of work by buying stuff from overseas...

Nope. I'll keep buying Colts, BCM's, S&W's, Rugers, Federal ammunition, any other shooting related stuff that I reasonably can from the U.S.

 

[stressed]

Norinco Luger. Yeah, you read that right.. Would be interesting to see how they machined it due to Norinco being known for loose tolerances, and the Luger being known for being made like a swiss watch.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Have you all forgotten why Norinco military-type firearms were banned ftom import?

-From Wikipedia:

In 1993, the import of most Norinco firearms and ammunition into the United States was blocked under new trade rules when China's permanent normal trade relations status was renewed. The prohibition did not apply to sporting shotguns or shotgun ammunition however. The year subsequent to that, U.S. Customs agents conducted a sting against Atlanta based importers of Norinco firearms. According to an affidavit signed by two of the undercover agents involved in the investigation dubbed "Operation Dragon Fire", representatives from Norinco offered to sell urban gangs shoulder-held missile launchers capable of downing a large commercial airliner.

In August 2003, the Bush Administration imposed sanctions on Norinco for allegedly selling missile-related goods to Iran. These sanctions led to a prohibition on imports into the US of the remaining types of firearms and ammunition not covered by the 1993 ban. While neither the Chinese government nor Norinco has denied doing business with Iranian companies, they dismissed the allegation that it involved missile related goods. Norinco has called the sanctions "entirely unreasonable."

So they only tried to send a few shipping containers of missles to America's street gangs - and to Iran... .

 

[itsa pain]

Have you all forgotten why Norinco military-type firearms were banned ftom import?

-From Wikipedia:


So they only tried to send a few shipping containers of missles to America's street gangs - and to Iran... .

Yeah and norinco sold WMD's to Saddam also. I do not believe this fabricated sting at all and why would gang members want to shoot down an airliner? Right now gangs are allowed to operate in our cities while police give out seatbelt/ speeding tickets. More propaganda for the guys that duct tape plastic sheeting around their house to keep terrorists out