Who blew up the OK City building?

[griz]

World Trade Center 7 being brought down by demo charges, as admitted by the owner on PBS

I've heard accusations that the building was intentionally brought down but no evidence besides the fact that it fell straight down.

Do you have a link to that admission by chance? Does he mention the reason he knocked down his own building, or how he knew there would be such a golden oppertunity to do so?

 

[taliv]

hey, how come every time i post who blew up the WTC, my post gets deleted??

 

[RaggedClaws]

Muslims did it with the asistance of McVeigh.

You're kidding, right? Why on earth would Muslims want to blow up a building in Oklahoma? I don't think there's any international significance to anything in Oklahoma at all. No offense intended to Oklahomans

Blowing up the WTC, the White House, the Pentagon, yes, that all makes sense. But an Oklahoma City government building? Gimme a break.

 

[TheEgg]

Wow, I think I got lost somewhere in this thread -- but let me try to ask a question.

Somewhere early in this thread the point was made repeatedly that the ATF agents were not in the building, indeed had been told to stay away. That implied that there was fore-knowledge of the explosion -- at least that is what the accusation seems to imply.

OK, I then went to the OKC memorial web site and read all the names and occupations for the dead. For me to buy any of this, I have to believe that the AFT warned and protected ATF employees, but did not see fit to warn and protect:

Secret Service Agents
Armed Services Recruiters
Dept. of Defense Agents
Social Security Employees
Special Agents of HUD
Special Agents of DOT
multiple other federal agents and employees
AND
small children and ordinary citizens.

AND that what must be a massive conspiracy and cover-up by multiple individuals and multiple government agencies, has not produced one conscience stricken whistle blower in the last ten years?

Man, that is a hard case to sell, I think.

 

[taliv]

see, theegg, that's what this patriot act is for... to make it easier for all those depts to communicate.

 

[yucaipa]

In other words, just because the "conspiracy theorists" can't prove their point conclusively does not demonstrate that they are wrong or that it could not have happened that way. ALL it demonstrates is that they don't have proof.

Maybe they can't prove it because it never happened.


Or, just because I'm paranoid that doesn't prove their not after me.

 

[centac]

The fact, if it is a fact, that no ATF agents were in the building, therefore they were complicit, makes as much sense as saying that Zoroastorian transexuals were behind it all, after all, none were there.

The idea that the gummit could pull off a conspiracy of this scale, and still loses laptops full of sensitive info and cannot find OBL does more than strain credulity.

I heard someone theorize that people gravitate towards conspiracy when something like this or the JFK assassination occurs because it is so difficult to believe that something this horrible could be done by one or a few relatively "normal" citizens

 

[richyoung]

I've heard accusations that the building was intentionally brought down but no evidence besides the fact that it fell straight down.

There is video clearly showing the puffs of sequenced explosions on successive stories, just like every Las Vegas demo you've ever seen - plus the owner's admission

Do you have a link to that admission by chance?

I have a quote:
9/11 – My own review of the entire event.
by Joël v.d. Reijden

Apparently Larry Silverstein tries to explain something to us in the 2002 PBS documentary ‘America Rebuilds’:

“I remember getting a call from the, uh, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "You know, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull it. And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse.”


Some contende that "pull" means to deliberately demolish - others argue otherwise. Some argue that video shows a controlled implosion of WTC7 - judge for yourself here:WTC7 going down

Does he mention the reason he knocked down his own building, or how he knew there would be such a golden oppertunity to do so?

See above - IF "Pull" means to deliberately bring down, it would imply that:

1. Large buildings are pre-wired so that they can be imploded if collapse is emminent.

2. WTC 1 & 2 MIGHT have been deliberately brought down, rather than risk having them collapse into other, unaffected buildings, (boy, I would hate to have to make that decision...)

3. For obvious reasons, they don't want the fact that these buildings are "pre-demo'ed" to get out.


The impications either way are staggering - after the first attempt on the WTC, either:

we did nothing, and if something bad happens, we are gonna watch helpless and "let 'er drop", or...

We pre-placed explosives and control circiutry, so that if a building was reasonably beleived to be in imminent danger of collapse after another terroist attack or similar disaster, a controled implosion inside it's footprint could be assured - but then someone has to make that call....

 

[griz]

Pardon my skepticism, but to believe that most big buildings are “pre wired” is incredible. That would mean that most of the people working construction would have to be in on it. I’m betting we have some construction workers here at THR, any of you seen this? Further, look at all the ADs that LEOs, the military, and gun owners see. Look at the low speed fender benders when air bags blew. Look at way explosive plants are built with sacrificial roofs. In short, anything that CAN go bang DOES accidentally go bang sooner or later. And you have NEVER heard of a building getting accidentally “pulled”.

Hey, believe what you want, but when the people on the scene talk about pulling the fire department out of a building it doesn’t add up to a conspiracy to me.

 

[Bruce H]

The House of representatives and the Senate along wityh the Supreme court are to blaim. Two individuals are responsible.

 

[GEM]

So the president who we elect is not responsible for saving us from this giant conspiracy? That's an interesting take.

What he is supposed to do, if not protect us? That statement is just a comment to let the poster spin his world of plots.

Time for folks to see their mental health professionals.

 

[cuchulainn]

I think ina round about way, you're making my point.

Why is it we must ask the .gov nicely through a FoIA, don't these people work for us?

I don't follow. How does the existence of FoIA make your point? (Which point?)

 

[mons meg]

Isn't it time to shoot this lame horse of a thread?

 

[Phyphor]

Yea, I'm thinking..

this thread deserves to be clubbed like an alien baby seal wearing a tinfoil hat, while piloting a black helicopter to the secret base in Atlantis.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Without trying to sound like a member of the tinfoil hat crowd, I think you can state the following:

1. The official explanation is that a rented truck was filled with ANFO (well, 3 tons or so) that was mixed in a haphazard manner. That was set off, and the damage we've all seen was the result.
2. People who know about such things tend to look at the explanation, look at the data from the scene, and say "there ain't no way that caused the damage at OKC. Maybe some of it, but not the most significant portions."
3. Everyone I've heard who knows anything about the commercial use of explosives (and the digging I've done into the science behind explosives seem to back their claims up -- that's not the way explosives work) comes to the same conclusion: it's pretty clear explosives were used at the Murrah building, but the official explanation ain't even half the story.
4. There's speculation that it might be possible to structure ANFO in a way that makes it behave as a shaped charge, but no-one can show where anyone has ever done a proof-of-concept. No-one says McVeigh was a genius with explosives -- able to make them do what no-one else believes is possible.

We haven't been told the truth. It's difficult to deny that, if you want to go by what "evidence" is available.

Now as to what "really" happened, who knows? There are statements by ATF folks that they were paged not to come in that day. No ATF were hit. The head of that office claimed to be out of town but there's footage of him digging through his office soon after the blast occurred. It sure was convenient that McVeigh was cruising out of town, while planning on killing hundreds and packing a pistol, in a vehicle without a license plate, and he didn't kill the officer who pulled him over......

It goes on. Something other than the official explanation happened, but it's hard to tell what. We're being lied to, but we don't know why.

At some point you need to trust the experts -- like the FLIR footage at Waco that some claim "proves" the Branch Davidians were shot at while exiting the back of the dining hall. The government expert claims those flashes were "reflections" from something fluttering on the ground. People who deal with that sort of equipment say "no way, Jose -- that ain't the way reflections work, and that's not consistent with what FLIR captures." You can believe the people who understand the equipment that the feds are lying, or you can believe the official story, knowing that the majority of experts on the matter say your explanation is make-believe.

Tin foil? Maybe. Maybe it's just opening your eyes and trusting what you see.

 

[Bruce H]

Well I'm sorry if leaving out the president upsets your sensibilities but They House, Senate and the supreme court are responsible. They are the authors of legislation. The funders of departments and the final say on what fits with the constitution.

 

[El Rojo]

I am not a tin foil hatter, but I know something isn't right at OKC. The simplest way to shut the tin foil hatters up is to release the video they have of the Ryder truck and who got out of it that day. Release the video that shows the building exploding. Release all of that for the public to see and this whol conspiracy theory goes away. Plain and simple. Yet the government won't release it. And that is why I think something isn't right at OKC. Does that mean the government blew up the building? Not necessarily. Does it mean it was it foreign terrorists instead of domestic? Possibly. It is awfully intersting that everyone was looking for this John Doe #2, but now we could care less about him. Was he created out of the hysteria and confusion of that day? Possibly. So why not show us the video of McVeigh getting out of the truck and shut this thing up forever? Until they release the video, my only logical conclusion is McVeigh isn't the only one getting out of the Ryder Truck.

It makes you wonder, for a guy smart enough to make this bomb and carry off the attack, you would think he would be smart enough to at least take out a couple of the guys he was trying to get even with. Yet no ATF died. Imagine that.

Again, I am no tin foil hatter, but the OKC bombing smells bad to me. Too many simple questions not answered by the government.

 

[mons meg]

Another plea to the mods to kill this thread as not only ridiculous, but off topic...

Get informed on issues affecting the right to keep and bear arms and other civil rights. Coordinate activism, debate with allies and opponents. Discuss laws concerning firearm ownership, concealed carry and self-defense.

Also, please assume that this is an attempt by me to quash your freedom of speech. Or, maybe it's just an emotional response from someone from Oklahoma City who is tired of hearing all the theories. Maybe this thread should have been posted over at APS...

Oh, and I work for The Man. I can't be trusted.

 

[Beethoven]

Mons meg:

Why don't you take your whining somewhere else?

 

[Biker]

Hey Megster...
Seems to me that you have to click on this thread to read it, hmmmmm?
I'm enjoying it, as a number of others are, apparantly.
So, if ya don't like it, don't read it. Simple enough?
Biker

 

[mons meg]

Hmm, never been accused of whining before. Except for that time Mom wouldn't let me have any more Oreo cookies.

Can we talk about Oreo cookies now? i think it's as relevant to L&P as this thread.

Bear with me...I mean, I'm reading centac's posts and agreeing with him, and we all know he is the Devil Incarnate with Jackboots. The space-time continuum can't handle the strain, so please, in order to save us all from collapsing into a black hole...let's talk about cookies.

 

[Art Eatman]

And on these last three notes...

Nighty-bye...

, Art