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Who Dares Wins/ good guy with a gun- in Kenya

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by FL-NC, Jan 17, 2019.

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  1. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I'm surprised that there is almost no "mainstream" coverage of the British SAS Trooper who solo- counter-attacked the terrorists in the mall in Nairobi yesterday. For those who aren't aware, he was off-duty and shopping when this thing jumped off. He ran to his vehicle, kitted up, and went back into the mall repeatedly, engaging terrorists and assisting casualties. Even though this violates some principles of CQC (mainly because he went in alone and did not fully coordinate his plan with the other responders on scene) this selfless "get it done, and done quick" attitude is what response to an active shooter SHOULD look like. Hopefully an unclassified version of his AAR will be available for sharing with our military and first responders at a later date. Speed, surprise, and violence of action- these are the most important principles.
    Here he is, taking care of business.
    sas.jpg
     
  2. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Scott Peterson are you seeing this?
     
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  3. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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  4. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Wow.
     
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  5. Gridley

    Gridley Member

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    I just assumed that as soon as I heard he was SAS. :)
     
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  6. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    its safe to say he doesn't follow the advice of this forum.

    i'd be curious to read his real AAR (not filtered through reporters and editors) and know what the laws are for carrying in Nairobi.
    in any event, it's good to have yet another example of someone going to their car to retrieve a weapon.
     
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  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    According to the internet, Kenya is somewhat strict in granting a license for private ownership of a firearm. They claim to do an extensive background check, require applicant to show legit reason to acquire the firearm, and will terminate the privilege for any act of "misconduct". Once the authorization to own the firearm is complete, no additional permits are needed to carry. I carried US military issued firearms in Kenya when I was there TDY for a couple months in the late 90's.
     
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  8. Gridley

    Gridley Member

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    I got this sudden image:
    "Heard shots. Rigged up. Made entry. Neutralized hostiles. Extracted civilians. Gave report. Had tea."
    :)
     
  9. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    Uuuuuuuuhhh..... guys....

    Read the article:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The British SAS soldier was reportedly in Nairobi to train Kenyan Special Forces when a request for help went out to local forces.
    'He was there training and mentoring Kenyan forces when the shout went up, so they went in,'
    'He had his equipment in the car so, when it all kicked off, he sprinted back and got kitted up before heading straight towards the fire-fight.
    'When he arrived in the hotel, he started organising the entire operation, directing the police and army. . . .

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This was not some casual civilian who just decided to put his CCW to use.
    He was a professional, intimately involved with/known by the Kenyan counter-terrorism units and personnel.
    He also "...organized the entire operation, directing the police and army. . . ."

    Balls of hard metal to be sure. Full due credit.
    But very much a professional doing his job -- right then, right there -- as part of a team.
     
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  10. shafter

    shafter Member

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    Not just any good guy with a gun, but one of the world's most elite counter terrorism warriors. To me the biggest takeaway from this incident is am I training hard enough? This guy must have sprinted to his vehicle, grabbed his kit, and sprinted back. Then he had to make entry and engage an unknown number of shooters without hitting any innocent people. The average person would be shaking like a leaf from the running alone, let alone from the adrenaline and stress. They would be lucky if they maintained the merest fraction of whatever shooting skills they had on a regular range, and that's if they didn't have a heart attack in the process. This goes for far too many law enforcement officers as well.
     
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  11. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    I say again. . .
     
  12. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Answer- almost universally, NO. There is ALWAYS room for improvement, learning new skills, and adding more stuff to your tool box. After my military service, 4 years on overseas contracts, and all of the training and experience that came with it, I won't accept anything less than my best effort. I live fire weekly, handgun, tactical carbine, and long range rifle, I PT 3x weekly, and get beat up 2 nights a week in a MMA gym. Also an avid hunter, which counts to some extent as training. Also I'm 51. I am not training hard enough.
     
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  13. paulsj

    paulsj member

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    Very nice example of old time honored military doctrine if one is too weak to defend themselves attack instead.
     
  14. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    Again, not at all what happened . . . or how.
    Read the article -- all the way through.

    The reporter has falsely sensationalized the introductory sequence/facts to the point that
    anyone considering emulating these false facts is going to get himself -- and a whole
    lotta hostages -- killed very dead.



    .
     
  15. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Update- the Soldier is being recommended for the George Cross for his actions, which is the second highest award in the United Kingdom Honours System, the highest being the Victoria Cross.
     
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  16. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Great story, for sure.

    Not surprised it's buried here in the USA.
     
  17. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Well, does not fit the agenda of NYT or WaPo; and has words larger than one syllable, so not good for NYP or the like.
     
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  18. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    You do yourself a disservice to compare yourself to someone from SAS. I was fortunate enough to train along side a few SAS guys when I was in the Army. They are no joke, believe me. Although it was worth a chuckle for me and many others to see Brit SAS hold a M4 for the first time and fire it. The best takeaway you can ask yourself is how to best make yourself safe in that type of environment. The situation that happened in Kenya is not too far fetched for here. Shooting at a shopping mall. Where would you go? Outside? Barricaded inside? Who would you save? No one expects Joe Schmo to take down multiple active shooters with a handgun. This SAS guy just happened to be shopping and ruin some bad guy day.
     
  19. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I agree 100% that most people (really, almost everyone) will never get anywhere close to the level of proficiency in multiple skill sets as these Soldiers or Soldiers from similar units, but there is nothing wrong with using them as a paradigm in our goals and dedication to aspire to be as proficient as we can become. I left active duty 8 years ago, and left the contracting world 2 years ago- my "peak" is somewhere in my past, and it really hurts to say that, but everyday I try to expend my best efforts in the battle to minimize the erosion of the skills I worked so hard to hone over so many years.
     
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  20. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    A few thoughts...

    Obviously Kenya follows the British model on gun licensing (but ending before adding home inspections and the requirements of belonging to a sporting group...]

    If I were unfortunate enough to be there and actually be able to act.. The last thing I'd want is a public accounting of whatever I did (after I fully co-operated with whatever agency did the investigation after the fact). I'd also hope and pray that my name and other data were never made public, period.... Being one of the "good guys" is not always good for you - and the press is not your friend in any way if you're involved in even a minor shooting incident (another of those "ask me how I know" propositions...).
     
  21. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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  22. shafter

    shafter Member

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    That isn't my point. Those guys are in a league of their own. My point is that far too many gun owners envision themselves as being able to resolve a situation like this in a similar manner when that's far from reality. That doesn't mean we should dismiss hard training though. The last thing I want is to have a willing mind but weak flesh when it's go time.
     
  23. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    In large part we agree. Someone from an elite unit like SAS is something to strive for and emulate as much as possible. Within personal limitations.
     
  24. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Very true. And Walter Mitty fantasies aside it's not like the guy just "happened by"- as has been mentioned he was there in an official capacity working for the govt. It's unlikely otherwise that an SAS guy would be on holiday with all of his kit in his vehicle, especially abroad.

    And obviously the narrative that the gun lobby in the US is pushing is mostly a fiction. He didn't go in alone, Rambo style, guns blazing taking down tangos. He was part of a team. But the facts don't neatly dovetail with the gun lobby narrative so it has to be spun a bit.

    Still, the SAS are definitely bad dudes! This guy obviously came to kick ass and chew bubble gum and was fresh out of bubble gum!:D
     
  25. Jenrick

    Jenrick Member

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    I don't have the source handy, but per the British Ministry of Defense, the SAS soldier in question responded with the local security forces he was attached to for training. They made a point of saying that the soldier did not have his kit secured in his vehicle, and had to draw it from the armory. This makes far more sense than leaving your gear secured in a vehicle that could be broken into, or the vehicle could be flat out stolen.

    On the point of having the skill set of a spec ops soldier: I have been lucky enough in my professional life to train with some folks who left from the very top of the spec ops world, both foreign and domestic. Additionally I have had the pleasure of training with folks who are currently in, and are basically just below the top level and are very much the point of the spear. There are two things that your average citizen does not have that they do.

    The first is physical conditioning. To man (and I use that term, as all that I have had the pleasure of working with) are PT beasts. As noted above, you have to be in peak physical condition to handle the rigors of this type of work, as well as the bodies dump of hormones when this all kicks off. If you aren't you are going to be pretty much useless after you ride that initial wave of adrenaline. Second is mindset and real world stress inoculation. Again to a man, for every single one of them, going into a structure to get into a gun fight wouldn't be a new experience. It is one thing to think you know how you'll react, it's another thing to have honed yourself, put yourself in situations, etc, so that you KNOW how you will react.

    The mechanics of shooting doesn't change. It doesn't matter if you're being shot at, dangling upside down off a rope, etc. It's all the same as a day on the flat range. Yes there have been some absolutely great shooters among the men I have trained with, but the majority wouldn't raise too many eyebrows on the range. It is all about the ability to execute the basics, when the world is literally falling apart around you that makes the difference. Your average armed citizen when putting together their training plan, puts a little too much emphasis on this area, and not enough on the preceding ares.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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