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Who else likes a Hammer on their snubbie?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Gideon, Sep 15, 2008.

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  1. Gideon

    Gideon Member

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    I have a 642 like everyone else on the planet but I long to get an S&W model 60 (2") for two reasons. One, I like stainless and even after it's gotten beat up, you can bead blast it and it looks new. And then there's the hammer! Now EVERYONE knows hammerless (aka concealed hammer) is the thing for CCW to prevent snags and we ALL know defensive shooting with a revolvers should all be DAO, HOWEVER, does anyone else out there feel like I do that a revolver simply looks better with a Hammer?

    For IWB I don't think having a hammer is any liability at all. I agree you don't need SA for CCW except for a 1 in a million scenario that I won't ever be in, but I just think the hammered version looks, right!

    Now I like my 642 for pocket carry and I think the bobbed hammers on SP101s look great but I think a Model 60 with wood grips is about the best looking snubbie every made?

    Am I alone in this thinking?

    By the way, if you have a model 60 with wood grips, would you mind posting a pic? I'm going to get one and I'm trying to figure out which grips I like. I think the black wood badger grips on a stainless mdl 60 would just make a grown man drool.

    What do you think?

    God Bless
    Gideon
     
  2. MMCSRET

    MMCSRET Member

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    I carry and shoot a late model Colt DS because I am Colt prejudiced and like a hammer where I can use it with out thinking or looking. All my handguns have exposed hammers, to have a concealed or shrouded hammer would be a handicap. Exception 1; My Ruger Standard Model 22 from the 60's has no open hammer.
     
  3. bulbboy

    bulbboy Member

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    All my snubbies except my 642 have a hammer. It just doesn't look right without them! But for pocket carry - go hammerless
     
  4. CH47gunner

    CH47gunner Member

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    Model 60

    No 642 -

    I wouldn't buy a hand-gun without a hammer, except my Ruger MKII.
    While the original wood grips are stashed w/ the box, here's a pic of my Model 60 no dash, with a set of "pimp" grips. I'll see if I can dig out the originals & post another pic.

    Bruce

    [​IMG]
     
  5. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    I for one don't.
     
  6. Creature

    Creature Member

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    I am a CCW snubby "hammer-head". And I am very glad to see there are kindred spirits who prefer hammers on their snubbies!

    I rescued an old 1963-vintage S&W Chief's Special that was, cosmetically, in worse than miserable shape. It had been left in a cloth rag for some time which had basically imprinted its weave pattern onto the bluing over time. This on top of some very ugly holster wear. I would have passed on it had it not been for the perfect lock up and the cylinder and barrel being in excellent condition. Whoever owned it had taken good care of it, but must have either passed away or something and it was forgotten about and left to molder away in the rag.

    I had been carrying a 642 for quite a while, and while it was very easy to carry the 642, I slowly began to realize that I wanted an all steel snubby. I also came to realise that I really wanted an exposed hammer. The option for an very well "aimed shot" (for lack of a better term) which a hammerless DA-only snubby just couldn't offer me was very important to me. Especially in light of the shooting rampages at the WestRoad Mall and at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs.

    So, I purchased that Chief's Special for a song...and I immediately sent it to a trusted gunsmith. I planned on using this gun for CCW...and I wanted it to be as hassle free as possible, especially since I live in lovely hot and humid Virginia. After some discussion of the pros and cons, I decided to have it completely stripped and have a gunkote over parkerizing finish put on it.

    I haven't looked back. It is a wonderful shooter...and I can get very accurately placed shots out to 25 yards with this old snubby, especially in SA mode. I was even able to consistently knock over plastic gallon jugs out to 75 yards. I would have never even attempted that distance with my 642.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I wouldn't own a hammerless revolver.

    I do own a Model 49 with a shrouded hammer.
    But I can still cock it for accurate SA fire if I chose to do so.

    I have used Chief Specials for about 45 years now, and have never had one snag a hammer in my pocket.

    You put your thumb nail under the hammer spur during the draw, and it becomes hammerless!

    rcmodel
     
  8. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    The arguments for shrouded hammers or the "hammerless" Centennial that make sense to me are two: One they can be fired from inside a coat pocket and Two they are a bit less likely to snag on a draw. Both of these arguments are sound.

    The arguments "you'll never have to shoot sa in a gun fight" or that for "liability reasons dao is best" don't seem sound to me and are more arguments for a preference.

    My Colt Cobra wears a shroud.

    [​IMG]

    It allows for firing from inside a pocket and for a smooth draw. Also allows for a sa shot. Makes sense to me.

    This works well if the thumb is over the hammer.

    But for carry a J frame Centennial is a good choice and I've had a few over the years.

    tipoc
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2008
  9. kcshooter

    kcshooter Member

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    I like shrouded hammers. Allows snagless carry but still allows single action mode if desired.
     
  10. ravencon

    ravencon Member

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    Most of my snubbies are hammerless or bobbed. For me, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. YMMV.
     
  11. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I guess a lot has to do with what you shoot most often.

    My snubbies spend more time going fishing & hunting & plinking then going to gunfights in back alleys.

    If I want to take the head off a snapping turtle, or finish off a wounded coyote, or hit a beer can at 50 yards, cocked SA is best for doing it.

    rcmodel
     
  12. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

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    Interesting. I use a similar technique when drawing my Cobra with an exposed hammer but I place my thumb over the spur.
     
  13. csmkersh

    csmkersh Member

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    I find that remark insulting.

     
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I haven't a clue how anyone could find that insulting.

    I just stated that my primary use of my snubose revolvers is more likely to require better accuracy then I can get double-action only.

    rcmodel
     
  15. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    Learn to shoot dao and you'll never look back. As you might guess most of my j frames are of the "hamerless" variety. Besides nothing to snag on you can get a higher grip which will make for faster follow up shots. I had a model 60 that I was teaching my oldest son to shoot. He insisted in cocking the hammer as I guess it seemed more normal to him or suited him. After some shooting the hammer strut broke and ended up breaking the hammer nose as well redering the gun useless. Apparentely he was using too much downward force on the hammer while cocking it due to his small hands. Dad's usually know best.
     
  16. csmkersh

    csmkersh Member

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    The implication is that you think those who carry other than when hunting or fishing are skulking in back alleys looking for trouble.


     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The implication was, that I am not a Police Officer.

    If you knew anything about me, or my lifetime of guns, gunsmithing, National Match shooting in the service, reloading, collecting, and anything else related to guns, you wouldn't even have thought of that.

    I first started carrying a S&W 36 snubbie in my pocket in 1962.
    And I wasn't hunting or fishing!

    I am 65 now, and my lifestyle doesn't take me where it used to take me.
    But I still carry every day. Most often a DAO P3AT anymore.
    But sometimes a snubbie, with a hammer on it.

    rcmodel
     
  18. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    jeez calm down. I agree rcmodel, my carry gun is kinda like my doberman. Most of the time he is a family pet/walking companion, not chasing bad guys from the living room.
     
  19. Hawk

    Hawk Member

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    Probably so, but it reminds me of a late '07 reference to a Mas Ayoob posting on light triggers which included the following:
    What I remembered most was that the bogus charges of negligent discharge involved more real world examples of cocked revolvers than of single action semiautos. See:
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4849363&postcount=51

    There is also the oft-cited entry by Grant Cunningham discouraging single action in defensive revolvers.
    http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/the_case_for_dao.html
    The Cunningham post references LFI so I'd suppose there's some cross-polination likely.

    None of that would discourage the existance of an exposed hammer but it would seem to advise against its being cocked for single action.

    Since rcmodel has likely forgotten more than I'll ever know on revolvers and their use (along with Fuff, Dfariswheel and selected others) some of us are stuck with having authoritative, diametrically opposed opinions.

    So, certain of us that are relatively new will either flip a coin or just go with whichever point of view appeals more to us. RC is undoubtedly right that my DAO-fu leaves a great deal to be desired but the Ayoob litany of cocked revolver "negligent discharge" abuses is also compelling. I'll stick with the semiauto for now: the refuge of the indecisive.

    'Course all the "double action only" stuff presupposes "defensive use".
     
  20. Mr. D

    Mr. D Member

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    My carry piece is a model 36 with 3" barrel. I would not buy a bobbed hammered revolver. I agree - just doesn't look right and isn't necessary if you're carrying IWB or OWB.

    ~Dale
     
  21. weisse52

    weisse52 Member

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    I carried a mdl 36 for years and never worried about the hammer snagging.

    I carry a 642 now because I was able to buy a new one without a lock.

    I love the look of a orginal Chief Special, hammer and all!

    I think I will have to find an old one, add a "T" grip, may some stag or ivory grips. What could be nicer.
     
  22. wjh2657

    wjh2657 Member

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    As I no longer hunt with a handgun, I have changed my whole philosophy about my pistols. I have revolvers with hammers for range (S&W686 2 1/2") and home defense(S&W60) (and a S&W 317 for range and a Ruger Bearcat for fun)


    For carry though, I shoot nothing but DAO (Glock 23 is it/or isn't it DAO?) and pocket carry, so I like Centennials (64x) . I do have a Taurus 85 but it is a DAO UltraLight with the so-called hidden hammer, bobbed hammer. My range practice now is in close and fast (4X5 drill at 21 feet and less).

    So I guess I am neutral, Hammer for fun and range and Hammerless DAO for SD.
     
  23. goon

    goon Member

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    I like the hammer.
    When you're first starting it's easier to hit shooting SA and hitting is more fun than missing.
    Even if you only make one or two good hits per cylinder, that is still enough to keep you from getting discouraged.
    I also like having the option to cock the gun if I need to.
    Having a hammer doesn't stop you from shooting DA but having a DAO does stop you from being able to shoot single action.
     
  24. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    Hawk,

    Since a fella can shoot rapidly da with a hammer or without one seems that a bobbed hammer is a matter of preference.

    Ayoob has written in a number of places in favor of rendering da revolvers dao and in favor of bobbing the hammer. In these cases he has cited a few cases where officers were charged with having held a suspect at gunpoint with a cocked revolver (or where the officer has been accused of this) and the suspect was shot "accidently". In a couple of cases, a good many years back, prosecutors made some hay of this. Ayoob's suggestion was to render the dun dao to avoid these type charges. Bobbing the hammer he suggests aids in a smooth draw.

    Personally, I'm not a cop. Many of their concerns are not mine. If I were to shoot a fella accidentally or on purpose I would own up to it. I would not be in the position of explaining that I could not possibly have shot them accidentally because my gun cannot be cocked for single action firing. This was the motivation for Ayoob's suggestions.

    Holding some one at gunpoint with a cocked hammer seems to me a simple minded and "Hollywood" thing to do. It accomplishes nothing of worth and can lay the ground work for a ND. Makes one very likely in fact.

    The point of keeping a da gun da is it gives one the option of both. Folks should learn to shoot well da but that does not rule out the usefulness of a better aimed sa shot.

    Since many of us have more than one snubby, and they are handy things to carry while fishing, hiking, walking the dog, etc., I tend to find the option for both modes of shooting useful.

    I've never had a hammer break on my either.

    I read Bill Jordan before I read Ayoob, maybe Jordan ruint me though. I respect Ayoob's opinions on many matters but on this one I disagree, for my use anyways.

    I have nothing against Centennials, I've had a few. Very handy for pocket carry, but in general I prefer the da revolver.
    tipoc
     
  25. JCMAG

    JCMAG Member

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    Sometimes I wish my 442 were a 37. I really miss having a hammer.

    But at the same time, the 442 is idiot proof when it comes to drawing. As long as you don't drop it or pull the trigger, it will come out easily.

    But I still miss the hammer. Partly this is because I only own one centerfire handgun and it has no hammer...

    Sometimes I wish my 442 were a 37. I always wish my 442 were a chief's special.
     
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