Who is aiding/supplying the Iraqi Rebels?
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Zeke Menuar
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The people you buy your gasoline from, funnel money to the terrorists via Saudi Arabia, their allies and their oil companies. Pretty neat isn't it.
ZM
ZM
Sarah Hughes
Member
I think it is interesting to compare the reactions towards different phenomena by the same people: Abu Graib the world was 'disgusted' about what some people did to the Iraqi prisoners yet nobody says a thing about the never ending traffiking of guns and ammunitions to these so-called 'rebels'.
British and American civilians and servicemen are being killed and butchered by these people. Instead of being worked up by some idiotic pictures how about we stop these people killing our citizens. The point is that Iraq is a very, very backward country and needs someone like President Bush to free them from a President whom not only did they initially support but also some were prepared to die for.
Guns are bad, but when people like Saddam and his countrymen have guns and ammo at their disposal it is up to us to make the world safer so that 9/11 can never, ever, happen again.
British and American civilians and servicemen are being killed and butchered by these people. Instead of being worked up by some idiotic pictures how about we stop these people killing our citizens. The point is that Iraq is a very, very backward country and needs someone like President Bush to free them from a President whom not only did they initially support but also some were prepared to die for.
Guns are bad, but when people like Saddam and his countrymen have guns and ammo at their disposal it is up to us to make the world safer so that 9/11 can never, ever, happen again.
Vern Humphrey
Member
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I'm thinking that this is going to be a never-ending bout. It may end up something like the 100 years war that Spain had with the Arabs. And the only way Spain was able to conquer them was to declare a national religion and then wipe out everything else that wasn't....
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The war between Muslims and Christians in Spain lasted 781 years -- from Tariq's capture of Gibraltar (which is named after him -- Gebil al-Tariq, meaning "Tariq's Hill"), to the capture of the last Muslim stronghold, Granada, by Ferdinan and Isabella in 1492.
Spain had been Christian for hundreds of years -- the first Spanish converts were supposedly made by the Apostle James in the mid-First Century, more than six hundred and fifty years before the Muslim invasion.
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I'm thinking that this is going to be a never-ending bout. It may end up something like the 100 years war that Spain had with the Arabs. And the only way Spain was able to conquer them was to declare a national religion and then wipe out everything else that wasn't....
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The war between Muslims and Christians in Spain lasted 781 years -- from Tariq's capture of Gibraltar (which is named after him -- Gebil al-Tariq, meaning "Tariq's Hill"), to the capture of the last Muslim stronghold, Granada, by Ferdinan and Isabella in 1492.
Spain had been Christian for hundreds of years -- the first Spanish converts were supposedly made by the Apostle James in the mid-First Century, more than six hundred and fifty years before the Muslim invasion.
Tag
Member
Guns are only tools, it's how they are used.
horge
Member
A comparatively small force of Muslims under Tariq son of Zayyib invaded and subjugated old Hispania, and the disunited Iberians had to grind out some unity in order to resist, and then kick the invaders out --from Don Pelayo's redoubt in Asturias all the way centuries later to Los Catolicos' regnal reconquest of Granada (around the time their vassal Cristobal Colon was busy 'discovering America'). Thanks bringing it up, Vern!
If anything,
the Reconquista is a mirror of what Iraqis could do, given time.
Technology shortens the lengths they have to go to.
One can destroy any chance of the terrorist hatemongers obtaining all three key elements that sustained the Spanish Reconquista.
1. The elimination of religious/ideological character to the insurrection.
The warzone apparition at Compostela interpeted as the spirit of St. James (aka Sancte Jago, now rendered Santiago) turned the Spanish resistance into a magnet for foreign aid from the religious, and emboldened the resisters themselves. The present day Iraqi resistance around holy sites is amply dangerous: any miracle or apparition in their favor would fill rebel coffers already fed by foreign aid, and swell their already growing ranks. Charismatic religious leaders need to be disgraced quickly or else coopted. The US knows all about adding religious/ideological character to a military operation: the 'Coalition' itself claims the champion's mantle on anti-terrorism and democratic freedoms.
2. Securing the borders. The Spanish reconquest was fueled in no small part by European money and material pouring in from the north, first to Asturias, later to the lords of Catalunya, until the county of Leon whelped the juggernaut military might of the Kingdom of Castilla, and Spaniards themselves could provide all the money and materel needed. Iraq today has extremely porous borders, and modern financial transactions respect no border at all.
3. Fighting time. The collapse of Muslim Spain was truly a matter of time. The powerbase Caliphate far away had waned, leaving the Muslim colonies on their own. Today, t,echnology and communications, plus a 4-year US political cycle, make for an even shorter shelf-life on long-distance, effective support for US forces, and from that POV they may need a solid exfil date in much less than 2 years. However, technology also extends the reach of coopting, calming propaganda and truth, and if the US stays on the High Road, right truly is might ---and the sort of goodwill and tolerance it breeds boast a shelf-life is measured in centuries.
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Ultimately, I think Macchiavelli had a rock-solid point:
A garrison is easily outperformed by a trade mission, if applied in time.
Perhaps one could quietly get a respected third party investor to come in and get some sense of normalcy and trade going. Perhaps the French, but better still the Jordanians and Iranians, can invest in selected border towns and cities (close to the investor's border, naturally). There are peaceful, respected local Iraqis who can be tied up with the investors. These businesses must in turn be supported by foreign demand. Resultant local wealth may eliminate the impoverished rural manpower that serves rebellions in the interior. This also can serve to civilize and secure the very transit points of intruders and contraband from without.
Right now the US really is the Great Satan in the eyes of too many Iraqis. Third parties possessing a track-record working relationship wth Iraqis may have to be brought in. Devoid of any damning connection with the US, they may be able to do the calming, normalizing work as truly neutral, respected non-combatants.
The al-Qayyida and various Harrakat already know this.
Most observers think the beheadings of private persons is merely to intimidate the Coalition. Not so. The longer-term effect is to prevent Macchiavelli's admonitions from timely aplication. Who would invest in central Iraq now? The borders towns, though, may be easier to secure by any border investors themselves.
Fire and steel aside...
Your true 'weapon' is the hope of peace, prosperity and human dignity.
The enemy's 'weapons' are Fear and Hate.
None of these 'weapons' need be sneaked in through the porous Iraqi border.
They can already be found in the hearts and minds of every Iraqi,
and yours is a contest of not only courage and cunning,
but of clarity as well.
jm2p
horge
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