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Who Needs 450 Bushmaster When There's The 45-70?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by medic68, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. medic68

    medic68 Member

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    I'm not sure the question was a "whine" or anything other than just what it was...... a question a "modern" item versus a "historic" item and their relative abilities. I will agree though, there are some "whiny" folks here............ or should that read effete outdoors-men?
     
  2. kheeka

    kheeka Member

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    Whose whining? jeez.
     
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  3. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    Who is trying to convince you that you should?
     
  4. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

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    If you can’t tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi, I doubt anyone here can offer you the medical attention you need. Cartridges are a different story entirely. Can anything be done with modern cartridges that couldn’t be done a hundred years ago? Yes. The 338 Lapua, 408 Cheytac and various other long range cartridges continue to push the boundaries of long range precision shooting. The 458 SOCOM, 6.8 SPC, 300 BLK and 6.5 Grendel have turned America’s rifle into a valid big game rifle. Nothing earth shattering, but there’s valid reason for companies to keep pushing the envelope and developing new rounds.
     
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  5. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Hey I was not the only one: The Coca-Cola Wars: Can Anybody Really Tell the Difference? isn't it interesting that when given the same drink, in the same cup, but when the cup was marked with the letter "L" or "S", people preferred the cola in the "S" cup?

    Let's see how many of them have staying power. In so far as long range cartridges, long range precision shooting may be feasible out West, where shooters can get on top of a huge mountain and have a clear line of sight for miles.

    OI7i0bp.jpg

    But, east of the Mississippi, how many thousand yard ranges are there? Ones that are open to the public? They are very rare because of the topography of the land and the population density. And the ones I have been at, the humidity makes the air so soupy, it can be hard just to see the scoring marker.
     
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  6. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    Heck, 1000 yard ranges are rare out here, too...

    My brother recently bought a Christensen Arms Ridgeline rifle in 6.5 PRC that he wanted to stretch it's legs with. He had to drive 75 miles just to find a range with a 750yd target.

    We were out scouting for elk last week and he was showing me his fancy new rangefinder that was programmed for the bullet and load of his fancy new rifle. He had me look through the rangefinder and point it at a feature of the landscape in the distance. The rangefinder calculated the distance and how many clicks to turn on his scope to zero the shot.

    I was amazed to discover just how far away targets were in the woods.

    The yellow circle in the photo below was "only" 550 yards away, but to me, it seemed like around 800 and way too far to be taking a shot. The red circle was 1200 yards and it seemed insane to be shooting at an animal that far away.

    WGKx2mJhQa-sNwfFwwzo4w.jpg
     
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  7. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    Anything more the 100 yards are very uncommon and if you find one it cost big bucks.
     
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  8. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    Likewise. Dont like the thread? Don't click on the thread.
    Your permission and/or approval is not needed, thanks
     
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  9. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

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    I reckon I’m luckier than I give myself credit. I’ve got access to multiple (3 I can think of off-hand) ranges where I can shoot 800 yards plus. Long range shooting is a fast growing sport. It will always be a niche because most people aren’t willing to spend the time and money to really get into it. Bottom line, I’d much rather have too many options than too few options.
     
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  10. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Depends on where you are, when I lived in GA, if I wanted to shoot further than 200 yds I went out to the lease and set up on the edge of a clear cut that was good for about 350 yds.

    Where I live now, I'm about 15 miles from a 1,000 yd range that costs $85/year (and has 13 other smaller ranges attached). Most folks just go to the giant sections of National Forest scattered all around where getting out, well past 1k is pretty easy.

    While there definitely are more opportunities for long range shooting in the west, if you're willing to look around and drive a bit, you can find spots in the east as well.
     
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  11. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I picked up a 2,000 yd range finder a few years ago, not because I planned on shooting game at long range, but rather so I could plan stalks when I spotted animals that were in spots like that with no real reference to help you with distance estimation. A couple of stalks towards animals that were " 'bout a half mile away" that turned out to be about a mile and a half away were enough to convince me that I'm terrible at range estimation.
     
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  12. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I like my 450 Bushmaster. I have had a lot of fun with the gun and reloading the cartridge. My dad and brother both have 1895 GBL's in 45-70 and they are nice but I like my 450 Bushmaster better. My lever guns are chambered in 44 Mag and 410 bore.

    My 450 Bushmaster
    yX7fCYhl.jpg
    My favorite 450 Bushmaster bullet
    2vu5axgl.jpg
    100 yard 5-shot group, ready for deer season.
    Ofw4E7gl.jpg
     
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  13. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I feel bad for folks who can’t find ranges longer than 100yrds. I can think of at least 10 within 3hrs drive I have used or competed at in the last several years which go 600-1000+, and frankly, there are hundreds of suitable crop fields within a few minutes’ drive where a guy can shoot as far as their heart’s content. Also a handful of public wildlife areas within a few hours which can go as far as you can see, well over 1,000yrds there. I have an 800yrd personal range which can back up to 1200yrds when the neighbor’s wheat is either short or cut. I also have another pasture which can go to 1800yrds all year round, 2200 yards if I mow, or the grass is grazed short. I’m also a member at a range which runs 1,000yrds with all of the positional shooting toys I can dream of. I’m also a member of an indoor 100yrd range for zeroing.


    Check out the Precision Rifle Series Regional Series web page. It has an interactive map with matches all over the country. Not all states have matches, but you can see their locations geographically. Get ahold of the match directors for these respective matches, and you’ll usually be able to run down a 600-1000+ yard range within a couple hours’ drive.

    I know a lot of folks don’t like to leave home, but if you’re not willing to travel an hour or two to shoot 600+ yards, I kinda have to wonder how much you actually want to shoot, or rather maybe you’re just content to sit at home and complain that you would if you could, but can’t...
     
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  14. JeeperCreeper

    JeeperCreeper Member

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    To tag along with what others have said, if you have an AR, a cheap $250 upper can turn your range beater into a "fairly okay" short range hunter.

    Theoretically it can go out to 250 yards with ethical hunting accuracy and energy for thin skinned game. Again, theoretically.

    $250 for 250 yards in a big bore? Not too bad for ballin' on a budget.

    I have not ever shot one, but I'm considering one for moose in the tinder.
     
  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Not theoretically. Actually.

    ‘Been to 250 with slower punkin’ chunkers than the 450 Bushmaster. The ~12moa in drop is a bit to consider, but it’s only that, a consideration.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  16. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    The suggestion that the 45-70 is a short range cartridge is patently absurd. I regularly shoot in a competition out to 500 yards with a Pedersoli Rolling Block. I suck at 500, but a number of fellows I shoot with, one of whom is at a 1000 yard shoot in Nebraska (one shot one hit to qualify) will demonstrate the folly of this notion handily.

    I think the 450BM is a pretty great hog hammer. But it will not reach out as far as a 500 grs paper patched slug over 68 grs of 1.5 fg.
     
  17. mokin

    mokin Member

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    I have no doubt of that.

    A few years back I was helping the local club with a hunter sight in. A gentleman from Louisiana asked for help so I sat down next to him and asked him what I could do. He mostly wanted clarification on what targets to shoot, how the range was laid out, etc. When we got to the part when I told him we had a gong set up at 300 yards he really got excited. After we had taken a few shots, adjusted the dope on his scope to his satisfaction, he asked if he could take a few shots at the 300 yard gong. I told him he had paid his entrance fee ($6.00) and could shoot as much as he liked. He said where he usually hunts you could barely see 100 yards let alone 300. I think he shot most of a box of ammunition there. It was good to see him smile.
     
  18. JeeperCreeper

    JeeperCreeper Member

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    Haha yeah I didn't wanna speak in absolutes since I haven't done it myself, and I didn't wanna deal with the "prove it" arguments that happen on here with any claims.

    But from what I'm reading, with the right loads, and tricky zeroing at 150yards, the 450 bushy does well with only Kentucky windage up past 2hundo
     
  19. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    It can't do anything your Marlin can't do, but It can do everything your Marlin can do, and it can do if for less weight carried and less felt recoil in a more compact package with a higher rate of fire with faster reloads.
     
  20. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    No. The 450 BM cannot do everything the 45-70 can do. Just as the Marlin 1895 cannot do everything the AR15 can do.
     
  21. Taipan01

    Taipan01 Member

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    Why would you want to scrap your 45/70 or say you should in order to have a 450?

    I have a number of lever guns and AR's along with bolts, some scoped others iron sights, pumps, black powder, varying other semies and so on. Each has it's own little niche for me depending on use. I know some people say that 5 firearms minimum and so on for survival, off the grid, etc. usually one is a long range bolt or semi, a .22, a 12 ga and two others. I sat back one day and thought about what it would take to fill about every type of firearm endeavor. It came close to 50 depending on situation, terrain, use and so on. In all reality, you could fill all those niches with the AR platform with a few different lower receivers. Heres a Wiki page with the varying calibers available today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_calibers

    I prefer my mix and match rifle selection but there is something to say about uniformity.
     
  22. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    I have a nib ruger # 1 in .460 S&W with a 22" barrel that will rock your world loaded to its upper limits. easy to get 2400 fps with a 265 gr sft-hp with no pressure. I had 12 ruger # 1,s and kept three, a .223 red pad,a 35 whelen, and the .460 S&W.
     
  23. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I believe that is five firearms maximum, and it's usually 12 ga shotgun, handgun, bolt gun w/ scope, AR15, and rimfire rifle. In that case, neither the 45-70 Marlin, nor the 450BM would make the cut.
     
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  24. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    Why the self imposed restriction?
     
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  25. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    With range finders and assuming registered zero's, shooters can hit at long distances. The major problem I found with my 45/70's is the extreme bullet drop. You would know, but doesn't a 405 LRN drop 22 inches going from 100 yards to 200 yards? And it drops more the further you go out. A BPCR shooting bud of mine, at the 500/600 yard range he was at, the match officials would not let the shooters park behind the target frames. Those big BPCR rounds were coming down almost vertical at that distance.

    Yes the round is accurate, but the trajectory makes long range first hits at unknown ranges even harder to do than the sub calibers.

    My 58 Minie had even more drop. Guys on a range to the left could see my Minie balls arc towards my 100 yard gong target

    oqnjg0t.jpg
     
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