Remember the Black Talon controversy. If you use your gun even, in your home, you are going before a grand jury and there is just no escaping that. I don't know about you but, I most certainly want a grand jury of my peers determining my fate and not just the local PD or a one man judge. I also know in New Jersey the use of any hollow point ammunition is a felony enhancement or a stand alone felony for just possession. Many states have ammunition laws on the books as well.
Who uses 147gr JHP 9mm as a self defense round?
- Thread starter rellascout
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rellascout
member
Ball ammo is out of the question in my book.
I do not think in today's world JHP are seeing as a negative. A good lawyer will be able to argue you used them to prevent over penetration and that any bullet is lethal. Hypotheticals about what the outcome of a defensive shooting is not what this thread is about.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
I do not think in today's world JHP are seeing as a negative. A good lawyer will be able to argue you used them to prevent over penetration and that any bullet is lethal. Hypotheticals about what the outcome of a defensive shooting is not what this thread is about.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
redbullitt
Member
I load them to use through my suppressor as a defensive load. If you are not shooting suppressed or a sub gun, then I would go for the 124s.
DenaliPark
member
This is totally erroneous, in point of fact, 147 gr subsonic ammo burns its powder more efficiently than do 115 gr & 124 gr, standard, +P, or +P+ ammo does...What that means is that, the hotter ammo actually requires longer barrels to efficiently burn its charge of powder!
Deanimator
Member
I don't have a velocity fetish.
I use the Winchester White Box 147gr. JHPs in all of my 9x19mm handguns. They're accurate and reliable. "Box 'O Truth" tested them and they did well for penetration AND expansion.
I use the Winchester White Box 147gr. JHPs in all of my 9x19mm handguns. They're accurate and reliable. "Box 'O Truth" tested them and they did well for penetration AND expansion.
Deanimator
Member
What FACTUAL basis do you have for that?
Really? Besides New Jersey, which ones? Ohio is NOT one of them.
Deanimator
Member
You're going to have a LOT more problems when your 124gr. goes through and through and kills a five year old on the other side of your assailant than you EVER will from shooting and neutralizing him with a 147gr. JHP.
And don't even THINK it can't happen. It happened to the NYPD a LOT before they switched to JHPs.
mbruce
Member
I dunno...after watching natgeo "hard times" I would rather go meet my maker then head to prison...the wife would be set up with life insurance money and we have no kids....she'll find a replacement for me! If the muslims are right then Ill have 72 of em waiting on me....ha
rbernie
Contributing Member
I feel quite comfortable carrying the plain old pedestrian Gold Dot 147gr, based on the data that I've seen. It's my current EDC load, and I have a backup stash of Winchester 'Personal Protection' 147gr fodder just in case I ever run out of the GDs.
joe_security
Member
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147 gr for me. I shot up some old 124 gr GDHP and followed it up with some Win. Supreme SXT 147 gr."personal protection. The 147 was much more pleasant in my P226. The accuracy really suprised me. I have some 147 gr Ranger on hand, its not the "T" version. I really like the civilian SXT version, has this been replaced by the new PDX1 ? I noticed the PDX comes in both weights.
Thorgrim
Member
NG VI wrote:
I've never seen anything convincing (and scientific) on hydrostatic shock. In the early days of the term (IIRC, it was P. O. Ackley who coined it), it generally involved bullets moving +4,000 fps, thus the invention of the .17 Remington. I don't doubt (if for no other reason than simple physics) that velocity matters, but I've never seen a convincing scientific argument that supports it in the velocity ranges of most handgun cartridges.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced that it does not matter at all. After a summer of hunting groundhogs with a buddy (he with a .25-06, me with a .257 Weatherby), I noticed that a lot of his hit whistlepigs crawled off, and almost all of mine were anchored on the spot - and that's only a 200-300 fps difference. Same bullet, same powder, same primers - I loaded rounds for both of us. But ... mine were approaching the 4,000 fps MV that Ackley thought was an important breakpoint.
Sorry, just ramblings on an old topic that's never been settled to my satisfaction.
I've never seen anything convincing (and scientific) on hydrostatic shock. In the early days of the term (IIRC, it was P. O. Ackley who coined it), it generally involved bullets moving +4,000 fps, thus the invention of the .17 Remington. I don't doubt (if for no other reason than simple physics) that velocity matters, but I've never seen a convincing scientific argument that supports it in the velocity ranges of most handgun cartridges.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced that it does not matter at all. After a summer of hunting groundhogs with a buddy (he with a .25-06, me with a .257 Weatherby), I noticed that a lot of his hit whistlepigs crawled off, and almost all of mine were anchored on the spot - and that's only a 200-300 fps difference. Same bullet, same powder, same primers - I loaded rounds for both of us. But ... mine were approaching the 4,000 fps MV that Ackley thought was an important breakpoint.
Sorry, just ramblings on an old topic that's never been settled to my satisfaction.
clance
Member
I carry a Kahr TP-9 and run Federal 147gr. +P Hydro-Shoks.
I like the heavier bullet and Kahr recommends using +P loads in their pistols, or at least they did according to my manual.
I like the heavier bullet and Kahr recommends using +P loads in their pistols, or at least they did according to my manual.
mljdeckard
Member
I like heavy bullets. If I carried a 9mm I would use 147 gr.
I like 124gr Golden Saber non-plus-P "low flash" because it's what I target and follow-up best with at 7 yds and 10 yds in my 3913/908/5904 SD 9mm CCWs, after testing fairly extensively with my particular combination of the all-important equation of man/method/machine. This kind of confidence is more important to me than what size of hole it makes or what manner of shockwave the stats prove it may create. Your mileage not only "may" vary, but indeed "will" and "should".
Make up your own mind about what works for YOU. It makes much more sense than using what works for me (or anyone else).
Les
Make up your own mind about what works for YOU. It makes much more sense than using what works for me (or anyone else).
Les
Deanimator
Member
Jeff82
Member
147 HST, nuthin' but net.
ironhead7544
Member
I use the 115 gr CorBon in my G26. In one of those very small and light 9mm single stacks I would probably use the 147 gr HydraShok as the recoil would be a lot easier to control. I tested the 147 gr HS and found it expanded nicely. Just my .02.
Matt-J2
Member
I have the 124gr TAP in my new(to me) CZ 75. Shot well today, has a good rep so far as I know, and best of all, it was available to purchase when I went shopping for JHP ammo.
I'd like to try some 147gr ammo though, see how it shoots for me.
I'd like to try some 147gr ammo though, see how it shoots for me.
wally
Member
I don't carry a 9mm, but if I did it'd be with 147gr ammo!
I would be willing to bet that any shooting situation under any circumstances regarding injury or death is going to require a legal determination in every state of this union. This also regardless of the principles involved being either civilian or professional. It is a legal requirement.
I don't know if I would make such a wild blanket statement about the NYPD and ball type ammunition either. The fact of the matter is that, all police departments used ball ammunition for many many years in revolvers and auto loaders.
Our own military uses 9 mm 124 grn NATO FMJ ammo right now and we have won a few wars in the last 100 years with ball ammo. I just can't right off 124 grn ball ammo as not being an effective round.
Making such hard assertions is just unsettling to me.
I don't know if I would make such a wild blanket statement about the NYPD and ball type ammunition either. The fact of the matter is that, all police departments used ball ammunition for many many years in revolvers and auto loaders.
Our own military uses 9 mm 124 grn NATO FMJ ammo right now and we have won a few wars in the last 100 years with ball ammo. I just can't right off 124 grn ball ammo as not being an effective round.
Making such hard assertions is just unsettling to me.
mljdeckard
Member
No war has ever been determined by sidearms.
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