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Who uses a weaponlight on their medium-size CCW?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by cogun4hire, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    You plan to use your WML to light up and ID a baddie in your house and then just not do anything? I’d suggest maybe engaging the threat, but hey that would make sense.

    Plenty of entry teams use WML’s and shoot lots of baddies in the face, and the guys running lights on the gun aren’t getting killed in the streets from baddies shooting at their WML’s.

    It’s called a clue.
     
  2. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    I think I’ll just leave a few lamps on in the house. That would maybe make sense too. It would likely help to throw off the “baddies.”
     
  3. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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  4. Casefull

    Casefull Member

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    Good way to get shot is using a weapon light in my opinion. As to moving, what good is that if your adversary is shooting a spread? Do you want to be the hunter or the hunted? Also make sure you use a two handed shooting stance so your entire body is exposed to fire. The term is an ambush. If you really want to see what works have a pretend adversary and your self armed with paintball guns and go through shoot out scenarios in dark areas. The guy with the weapon lights going to get whacked nine out of 10 times. Just because so-called professionals tell you what's right and what's wrong does not mean they are correct.
     
  5. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    I keep considering it for my M&P9C 2.0, but before I invest conclude it is drastically unnecessary and probably comboresome compared to a pocket clip light. I am fine with my one handed shooting skills with a light close in anyway.
     
  6. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    So much ignorance here.

    Not even going to bother trying to beat this dead horse anymore. Some people are just too obstinate to bother with.

    I’ve used WML’s to clear structures in Iraq when the limitations of our NVG’s became apparent (early 2004). There are lots of organizations and individuals using WML’s and they work. Not a lot of instances of people using them getting shot because of that light. Plenty of instances of that light making it easier to ID and engage people that need to be engaged. There’s enough data to say it’s not a fluke. Putting a light on the gun simplifies the use of the light and gun combo exponentially as opposed to a handheld light only.

    It’s easier to train someone to use a WML than it is to train a handheld light used in conjunction with a pistol. The on target results with a WML will always be better because the whole combo is easier to control, and you get to put both hands solidly on the gun more often. Better yet, when you need to use your non weapon hand for other stuff you can still control your light and your pistol at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  7. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    That might be one of the most silly things I have ever read on here.

    Please show me the stories of all the guys who got killed because of their weapon mounted lights, surely there must be piles of dead SWAT team members, and soldiers who died because of that light. I guess my Google isn’t working because I’m not turning up any examples.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  8. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    What is “shooting a spread?” And if I may ask, what training/experience did you go through to inform your conclusions?
     
  9. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Or have your buddy hide in your house, a bedroom would be best, with a tactical light and you sit in some central location, like the living room, kitchen, or front hall, and have him use the most advanced tactical flash light techniques available, and see if you can track his movement through your house from your stationary vantage point.

    The next point would be to figure out, when he is just at the threshold of your position to determine who has more night vision left, him or you.
     
  10. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Take your pistol out in the dark of night and shoot some targets with it.
    Shoot some with a handheld.
    Shoot some with a WML.
    See which works best.
    The weapon light was much easier for me, no contest. Mine detaches from the rail in a blink if you want it off. I don't have a special holster to accommodate the light, I just slide it off.
     
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  11. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Every gun I own that has a rail, has a light on it. It gets real dark every night out here on rt 3. Maybe it doesn't where you live.
     
  12. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    Coal Dragger, your wml tactics may be perfect for a foreign military theater, but I don't want to sweep around my occupied house with my family in it like that using a wml. I accept the handicap to my shooting for increased safety. I don't believe that is an ignorant viewpoint personally.
     
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  13. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, but the subject is about a weapon mounted light on a concealed carry weapon. Something that you would carry concealed all day.

    Folks should really read the Tom Givens article in his Rangemaster Newsletter I linked above, just to help them assess their current situation. So much weapon mounted light training is done for, and by, the .MIL and .LE types with a focus on their needs and uses. The citizen concealed carrier generally has different needs. Your needs may include the use of a weapon mounted light, but chances are good, many, if not most, citizen concealed carriers may not.
     
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  14. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Yes, and with all due respect, one of my ccw guns does have a weapon light. The light goes in my pocket, gun in the holster. It is a good light, I use it by itself as a handheld....or I mount it to the gun if I want.
    I have used weapon lights many times, but thankfully always on 4 legged intruders. I will not take a shot in the dark, though.
    If I misread the OP, I apologize.
     
  15. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    The thread title is

    This to me means on a concealed carry weapon (CCW), which I would assume would be holstered, with the light attached, carried in a concealment holster. However, the OP may pop back in and clarify his point, and perhaps my understanding is in error.
     
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  16. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    The OP's issue is with the length of the weapon mounted light on his G19 and how that affects holster choice and concealment.

     
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  17. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Within the confines of a home you really don’t have to flag the muzzle around much to illuminate the interior enough to ID threats. You can pick areas to illuminate that you know no one who belongs there will be in the path of that potential round, and hit the light. Between how wide the beam is on the light and the light reflecting off of the room, you can usually light up that room pretty well without needing to sweep it at all. Unless you live in a giant warehouse, if you live inside a giant warehouse you’re probably going to have to sweep a WML around if that’s all you’ve got. Just try it with your handheld light instead if you need to sweep the beam around to search for an intruder.

    It will take training and practice just like anything else, and I’m certainly overdue for some myself, but if you go get instruction on both hand held and WML you will never want to shoot with anything but the WML if you have a choice. By all means have a handheld light for your non firing hand, there are methods to retain it so you can use that hand without dropping the light. Of course if your home defense rig is a shotgun or carbine it should 100% have a light on it, and you 100% need to train in your own home to use the spill of that light to illuminate rooms in such a way you don’t point it at loved ones known (probable) locations. The advantage is it’s your home, you have access to it to conduct this training any time you want to, as much as you want to.
     
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  18. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    For OWB carry the extra length of a full size WML would be a deal breaker for most.

    For IWB carry, particularly AIWB, carrying with a light mounted is not as much of a problem. For example the PHLster Floodlight holster I’m using to carry AIWB with a Surefire X300U on my VP9. It’s comfortable, even sitting down, and hides the whole gun and light without issue under any reasonably sized shirt. Just buy pants with a waist 2” larger than normal.

    Now if you wear skinny jeans and extra small shirts to go with your hipster beard, and other metrosexual wardrobe then such an option will require some lifestyle changes if you want to carry a full-size pistol with a light on it concealed. Of course most skinny jean wearing bearded lady boy hipsters largely don’t own, much less carry firearms so that probably doesn’t describe you.
     
  19. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    People really need to read this article.

    I am totally baffled by some of these replies. What exactly do people think they are going to be doing with their CCW and carry guns? Give away your position? If you are being attacked and forced to defend yourself, I hate to break this to you but your position has already been severely compromised. Chances are you have not been ninjaing your way around but rather you just walked out of a store or across a parking lot. You have been made, assessed as a victim and are being attacked. If there was not enough light there to already assess you are in danger then you are going down with your gun in its holster. If there is enough light there you are going to draw and fire, not draw, turn your light on and fire. Police cam video confirms this is what happens. You are not in your home, you are not a cop or military searching a building for tangos, your just a guy walking around and going about his business with very limited rules of engagement.
     
  20. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    spray and pray? Maybe? Hell, I don't know:confused:
     
  21. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    All my WML’s have a high light “spill” area, where I can sweep large rooms at ‘low ready’ and light up pretty much everything I need. You do NOT need to shine these lights directly horizontal unless your really talking a long distance.
     
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  22. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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  23. cogun4hire

    cogun4hire Member

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    Just to clarify, I was curious as to who carries a weapon light MOUNTED ON THEIR PISTOL in a holster of some sort, and why they feel it is necessary vs. no light.

    I understand the argument of "I will rarely use it, I have to spend more money to find a special holster, etc" however...I would rather have it than not...and as a responsible individual who carries a gun just about everywhere I go, I train extensively with the tools I carry. That is to say, I train in low light settings using my WML. If someone likes the idea of a WML but is not willing to go train at night or in low-light settings...you are truly wasting your money and POSSIBLY putting yourself at risk by improper WML use, I.E. giving up your position. However as others have said, by the time your pistol is coming out of your holster, statistically speaking, your position has already "been made" and you are in a desperate fight to survive.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  24. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Lights are getting smaller and holsters are getting better for light mounting for CCW.

    Really no excuse to not have a light on the gun. Shooting things in the dark without positive ID is and always has been a sketchy idea. Used to be a guy or gal might not have a practical alternative, those days are past. Put a light on the gun, learn to employ it. It’s true you may not have time to use it, or may not need it. On the other hand it’s there if you do. I’ve never been involved in a fight with firearms where I wanted less ammo, and less ability to see my opponents. No one has ever said in the middle of a fight: “Man it would be rad if I couldn’t see crap, and only had like 5 rounds!”

    So with that in mind it’s a matter of how much gun and how much light you can make work for you. The holster and method of carry will make a big difference.
     
  25. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    I still don't want to roam around my family dwelling flagging all inside just to look around. My hand held Coast light gives me a safe and practical option to ID. If I want to shoot two handed I can drop the light and let it hang from a lanyard on my wrist.

    Also, I have placed auto night lights around my house that greatly reduce the need of a light.
     
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