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Who uses/has a pistol compensator?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by TITAN308, May 14, 2012.

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  1. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    Have wanted for a while to model compensator after the H&K USP Match pistol that has long since been discontinued.

    Originally the design was going to be for a Glock 17, but that has been gone a while so I am having my machine shop partners make one for my CZ75 Duty pistol. I just want it for fun at the range and to help my wife, but I am curious if there are certain types of pistol matches (open class?) that allow for these?

    Does anyone use one of these on their night stand gun?

    And now my master level artistic skills at work... :lol:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And for reference, the old H&K USP Match:

    cimg0372c.jpg
     
  2. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    I wasn't going to bog this down with my noob question, but since nobody's posted yet...

    What does a compensator actually do?
     
  3. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    High pressure gas escaping through the compensator cuts/holes push down on the muzzle to counteract or "compensate" for the rise/flip of the muzzle from recoil.

    Open class competition shooters custom tailor the compensator type to the pistol/barrel/recoil spring rate/bullet/powder charge used so the pistol stays virtually flat shot-to-shot so you can engage the targets faster.


    Here's an example of non-compensated pistol shooting (Look at the first person perspective at :10 second mark of the video where the front sight jumps/flips from recoil) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_aD5U2OT8&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL70D1A9A9CD78C76D


    Here are examples of compensated pistol shooting (notice minimal muzzle flip from recoil):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgCKTiB-Ldo&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehx9pLXmqtc&feature=relmfu
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  4. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    looks like you could stand to loose a bit of weight off that.

    Muzzle compensators redirect gasses from the muzzle and push the gun against it's natural reaction to recoil away from the target.
     
  5. coalman

    coalman Member

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    I ran a comp. on a 1911. That thing was sweet. Having all that metal right up from helps, too.
     
  6. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    An excellent question. It increases the noise level you experience, sometimes tosses crud back at you, and looks cool. Other than that I really have never seen the point to them. If you want less recoil, get a heavier firearm or a lower powered cartridge.
     
  7. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    A compensator can be either an item that forces muzzle gases to exert downward force on the barrel, an attachment that is strictly adding weight, or some combo of the two.

    Mine would be the third.
     
  8. ku4hx

    ku4hx Member

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    I used to own a compensated pistol chambered in Dillon's 9x25. If I wasn't especially careful in crafting ammunition, it actually had negative recoil. Can't speak for others, but the comp on this gun worked exceptionally well.

    Had an offer to sell the gun for more than what I had in it so I parted with it; dies, cases and everything. I guess comps are fine, but unless you're particularity recoil sensitive, or just like the wind in your face, I see no need for them.
     
  9. 2wheels

    2wheels Member

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    My old man has one of those slightly extended "compensated" barrels in .357SIG for his P239. He ordered it by accident when he wanted a regular .40-.357SIG conversion barrel and decided to keep it for fun at the range.

    I only fired one mag through that barrel, but it did slightly reduce the amount of muzzle flip when compared to the uncompensated .357SIG barrel. Certainly wasn't a night and day difference.
     
  10. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    The compensator will put more FLASH in your eyes. So while the muzzle will be easier to put back on target faster, you won't be able to see your target for said 2nd shot. I am assuming that as a night stand gun, you mean that you may need to use it at night, in the dark.

    I have a compensator on my Ruger Mark III (just for fun) and on my Springer 1911, the muzzle flash is VERY noticeable during the day. At night in a dark room, it'd be pretty disorienting.
     
  11. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    I notice the effect on my 1911 as well. When the 'others' jump in and start saying that a 45 ACP is just too slow and too low a pressure to have any real effect for a compensator, I'll admit I can't quite tell if it's not just the extra weight out front that's helping. but I LIKE IT.
     
  12. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    Not all compensators are ported.

    Some merely add additional weight to the front muzzle to reduce muzzle climb.

    Well we are going to prototype two types for the CZ and look into other pistol models.

    1. Weighted and Ported

    2. Weighted Version Only

    Should be fun.
     
  13. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    And for you 1911 guys...

    1911 "Strikeplate"

    SPRS%20M6.jpg

    Desert%20Tan.jpg

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXxpK1vbx5lKlvhhorWGibFemNsGSvWqueFY-_VYuXfgD8Id3EhYIh7sya.jpg

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    For the Beretta 92 fans:

    post-23-1077834268.jpg

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJhTYYyJxAbsasfMQG0fuqIKJIget5rDHQcsEK-R8gzpplzHHjrcFkGG_y.jpg

    5066180490_430cce82f5.jpg
     
  14. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    Amount of "compensation" depends a lot on the powder and powder charge used in the ammunition. Some powders and lighter powder charges won't generate enough high pressure gas to produce noticeable/significant compensation. Using some lighter charge factory target loads may not produce enough high pressure gas for a compensated pistol/barrel.

    I do not see practical application of compensator on non-match pistols as you would need to match the load to the compensator and you can't adjust the powder charge (unless you want to go through A LOT of ammunition to find the box that provides just the right amount of compensation. ;):D).

    Even for compensated match pistols, it takes some trial and error using the right powders and high enough powder charge to get the pistol shooting flat.
     
  15. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    Not claiming its Tier 1 or anything, but for weaker shooters (my wife) and maybe even for teaching children a weighted compensator to tame the snap could prove very nice.
     
  16. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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  17. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

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    I'm not clear how this compensator is supposed to work, compared to a compensator that is threadded onto the barrel.

    If the compensator is mounted to the dust cover rail, does there need to be a gap between the barrel and the compensator to allow the barrel to tip up during action cycling? If so, does this gap lower the effectiveness of the compensator through lost pressure?
     
  18. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    John compensators of this nature operate usually in one of two ways.

    If its a non-tilt barrel its pretty straight forward.

    However if its a tilt barrel then there is is an open space on the roof (you kind of notice it in my hand drawing, bottom left top view) to allow the barrel the tilt room needed.

    Also some models have an extended barrel that goes all the way through the compensator and others (like mine) that use a standard barrel. And generally there is a small gap to answer your question.

    Here is a top view of the H&K USP Match to give you an idea how they allow tilt barrel models to operate:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    Adding weight to a polymer gun seems to be going the wrong way.

    If it's non ported, just hang lead weights to the accessory rail. Yes, further out would be better, but closer in would be a LOT easier.

    YES... and there will be a leak just like between a revolver cylinder and barrel. Actually worse cause on a auto, your gap would probably need to be larger to ensure reliability. The "ported" compensators attached directly to the barrel work the best. Does a floating or non attached compensator work? I say, yes, to some extent. We could get into a $/ degree change, but we have that all the time. Is a Ed Brown 1911 that much better than a stock Springfield/ Colt/ Ruger etc????

    I don't think "I" would call a non ported attachment a compensator. I'd call it a counterweight.
     
  20. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    Isn't this just splitting hairs? Counterweight = compensating for something using weight.

    Well when manufactures make more of a point to have a steel version of every model I will agree. I don't really care for the looks of a standard CZ75, I do however like the lines on a CZ Duty. There is not steel version of the duty as it looks now.

    Because that doesn't look nearly as nice?

    I'm not afraid to admit I want a good looking gun. I have my "beater" guns, but a majority of my collection is built how I want them to look.

    If I am going to customize something, does not seem like much effort to basically get a small brick and ziptie it to the rail. No rather the fun is imagining, designing, producing something that looks like some effort was put into it.

    I get that some people operate strictly under the "how does it work" not "how does it look" - but a majority in my opinion are a mixture of both.

    Some people customize cars. Some customize trucks. We customize guns. :)


    PS: I AM A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE DARN IT!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  21. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    I just sold a Dan Wesson 357 with interchangable barrels the had a compensator on one of its 6-inch barrels. I didnt own it long but it shot remarkable.
     
  22. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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    WHY YES it is. :) but what better place to split hairs than on a gun forum.
    Wanna start talking about what a .45 Colt is? Or is it .45 Long Colt. Or what a REAL 1911 is or isn't. ;)
    I think you'll find though that a pretty good majority of people on a gun forum when they hear or read "compensator" they think "ports" and shooting gasses (and flames) up. Also usually when talking about compensators, they talk about the increased noise from the shooters perspective. So back to your original post and a night stand table, a ported compensator will be the last thing I want on a enclosed space, in the dark shooting weapon.

    OK, NOT lead.. how about just a massive steel block with fancy machine work scrolls and ribs hanging off the accessory rail and still leaving your night stand gun short and maneuverable. :D Not that the extra 2-3 inches of your design is going to matter.
     
  23. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

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    Titan: Thanks for that. So then this is more a barrel weight than an actual compsenator, which I take to mean redirected gasses through ports, an example would be any of the Glock "C" pistols.
     
  24. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    Correct.

    The design I have drawn would allow one at a later time (after the fact basically) to add an extended barrel that IS ported on the end and the vents on the top of my design will allow proper exit for the gasses.

    When I design something, I try and throw in things that *might* be used at some point and its just easier to design it in from the start then have to back track and re-work.

    Even without the mentioned item, there would still be some light "porting action" based merely in the fact that when the bullet exits the barrel all that gas is behind it and my compensator will still direct some of it out the top, even if its designed to work best with an extended barrel. Does that make sense?
     
  25. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I understand your reasoning, but what you are in fact doing is trying to confuse the meaning of commonly accepted pre-existing terms.

    1. There are ported barrels that direct gases upward to counteract the muzzle flip...the most well known are Mag-na-porting and Hydraporting.

    2. There are barrel weights...extra weights added to the barrel that are used to delay of off-set muzzle flip. The most common are Olympic target guns and Pin guns from the early days of USPSA/IPSC. Weights attached to the barrel of a moving barrel affect the timing of the action and usually require that different springs by match to the recoil impulse.

    Weights attached to the frame/dustcover fall under this category, but not being attached to the barrel means that they do not affect the timing of the action.

    3. Compensators are usually a chamber that extends beyond the muzzle of the barrel which catches the gases behind the bullet and directs it upward. It reduces muzzle flip through the force of the gases pushing (forward) against the front wall of the chamber (sealed when the bullet is passing through the hole in it) and venting (upward) out the top.

    Compensators attached to the barrel affect the action timing, just as a barrel weight would. One attached to the frame do not. However compensators attached to the barrel are more effective.

    The volume of the gas column behind bullet determines the effectiveness of the compensator
     
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