Why Are Knives Always Weapons?

Status
Not open for further replies.
OK, I finished my day, and decided to do some pleasure education reading.

I just read Boat's post 45: the steel 101 primer.

That's the most articulate, informative yet concise explanation of knife steel I've read anywhere. Excellent. That post alone makes this thread worthy of sticky consideration.

Your explanation of the composition of the alloys, stainless v carbon, the relevance of carbon content, the trace elements, and the shortcomings of AUS8 from lack of C and Co is enlightening. I get it. Thanks.

Your explanation of 1095 makes me appreciate my Kabar (even if I don't find it as handy for camp use as my SOG Seal Pup).

Bark River Bravo-1
Well, now, after doing some reading about that Bravo, I've put it on my "to get" list. I'm impressed.

Found the Bark River page about it here (very slick graphic for handle choice), and a nicer more complete description of it here.

From that last one:
The Final Result is a Heavy Duty Bushcraft/Survival Knife that can stand up to Abusive use.
I'll just bet that's true.

They don't come cheap -- $170 - $250 -- but I have little doubt they're worth it.

Nem
 
Clearly, the problem is with the unwashed public's perception of the implement, not in the semantics of labelling.
What we're gonna have to do is each of us take a knife knewbie to a safe, well lit, professionally run and maintained knife range each week, and show them some of our side of the story.
Maybe then the evil press will stop with their hit-pieces on "Evil Assault Knives" already...

Molon LaBlade!
 
Evil Assault Knives

That would be cool.

If only we could get the press to switch their opinions.

Maybe the public would be less edgy about cutlery.

Sadly, I despair that the legislators will get the point.

But, come what may, we must show some spine and refuse to fold in the face of opposition.

We must steel ourselves, as this process will grind on for years, and will surely test our mettle.

I'm with you, Griff.

Molon LaBlade, indeed!
 
another thing you have to keep in mind with knives is not just steel, but heat treat and edge geometry.

heat treat is very important, for toughness and edge retention. If the steel is too soft when you cut something the edge can roll and deform, which dulls it very quickly. On a similar note, if it's too hard it will be brittle and chip when you cut something.

and it's the same story with edge geometry, and the total geometry of the knife. If the edge is thinner it seems sharper, but it will bend or chip more easily. A thicker edge is more durable if the knife is being used for chopping or batoning. Better steel that is hardened just right can be taken to a very thin edge and still be durable.

A good example is a KaBar, which is a pretty tough knife. It's made of 1095, which has a lot of toughness, and is cheaper. And it's made of thicker stock with a thick saber grind. If you try to slice a tomato with it, it will squish some, and bind, and act dull, even if the edge and shave hair. But you can dig with it and baton with it and stab it into bad guys and it was stand up to that. A thin chef knife could slice the tomato better, but if you issued those to soldiers, they would bend them and break them. So the knife performs very well for what it was designed for, but it might not be the best choice for you.
 
To just answer the topic question - because a lot of people tend to think the worst of something. If a guy is open carrying and does not have a badge, he MUST be a bad guy. And if a guy has a knife, well, he MUST be Jack the Ripper re-incarnated. I hope you get my point (no pun intended ;) ), as I can't say much more about that particular subject without veering off the High Road and invoking the name of a certain wolly animal. :D

Then on the other end of the spectrum, I guess is the "tactical" crowd which does not help out a lot either sometimes. Kind of like people that sell gun parts and such that market them as "assault weapon parts" :banghead: or even "high capacity mags."

I agree that foremost, a knife IS a TOOL, and I do my part to help people see things that way. Maybe because I sometimes get snide remarks at work from people of the first mindset I was talking about about my assorted pocketknives. Never MIND how many boxes, totes, label reams, et cetera they've seen me cut open with it, they think "weapon" instead of "tool." Though I've yet to encounter any "real" trouble because of it, and don't really anticipate it.
 
Buried at work for more than ten days.

Good to see this thread still has its edge,
making its point, refusing to fold,
grinding on ...
 
ArfinGreebly said:
If only we could get the press to switch their opinions.

That, I'm afraid, will never happen.

When asked about defensive knives, I always answer my clients that the next time they will see a knife fight is in a retrospective of "The Westside Story." Heck, I've hung around with bikers my whole life and never saw a knife fight.

But all it takes is one newspaper headline. "Banger Slashes Businessman."

I can guaranty you that if that headline appeared in my liberal town, the only cutlery we would have is butterknives.

Having said that, we knife owners do it as well.

How many times have you laid in bed at night when at 2:00AM a little ricer car with an open exhaust power slides through your subdivision with all twenty-seven bass speakers cranked up to the "nose bleed" level? Happens here all summer long.

And even though I ride a modified motorcycle I often get miffed, roll over in the bed covers, curse, and mumble, "There ought to be strict laws for those little plastic cars..."

In reality, there might be over 100 modified ricers in my bedroom community, and only one jerk. And if I squawk about anything to my beat cop it's going to be about late night beer bottle litter and loud ricer cars.

The only way to end a bad public perspection is to sweep our own section of the street. In other words, try not to open a Godfather in front of little old lady quietly knitting.
 
I carry a benchmade 610 which is by no means a small folder. When ever people see it they give me crap and say the line from Croc Dundee, "Now thats a knife." I have always carried a knife since I was 18 because I was mugged and said it would never happen again. So I carry it as a defensive weapon. I have pulled it out of my pocket and used it once as a weapon when I was assulted about 3 years ago. Other than that it has been a more than handy tool that I use almost everyday. The people that say that they are only weapons are the people that nothing have ever happened to and have never needed a knife for anything other than cutting food.


What I hate is when im using my knife to cut open a box and people say I should not carry that and if I need to open something I should use box cutters. Tell that to the people on the planes during 9/11. Box cutters are just as much of a weapon as a knife.
 
Darthbauer said:
What I hate is when im using my knife to cut open a box and people say I should not carry that

I hear you, I work all day around knives of all sizes.

However, you are not limited to owning only one knife. I have to open numerous UPS boxes everyday since my wife and I have our inventory sent to our home. I can use anything I want there, I usually use the first thing I grab. (I'm a tad protective of my really expensive knives and that gummy shipping tape.)

However, the public are a bunch of whiners, and I own several SuperKnives, all of them with purple handles. Looks like a toy.

Just part of playing the game.
 
We are lucky the Liberal Media hasn't grasped onto calling them "Assault Knives"
 
Quigley said:
We are lucky the Liberal Media hasn't grasped onto calling them "Assault Knives"

No, but we foolishly call them tactical knives.

My EDC is a CQC-7 HD-7. One of the strongest, most useful knives I have ever owned.

Ernie originally sold some to SEALs. It is my understanding that the point was gleaned from a feudal Japanese spear.

What I view as a well made pocketknife, a liberal reporter with an agenda might refer to this same knife as "a knife bred of war, used for centuries to oppress it's own citizens."

While that might, in fact, be true, you could also use to describe any bayonet. And while our Marines always fought for freedom, the commom Ka-Bar is also "bred of war."

The key word here is "agenda." I want to cut open UPS boxes, trim string, perhaps splice an electric cord. My own common tool could actually be used semantically against my own beliefs.
 
As an electrician of 35 years I think that only a butcher uses a knife more on a daily basis. I carry a knife (Tool) made by Klein tool company called a splicer's knife (tool) in a sheath on my belt and it is used just as much as my sidecutters and screwdriver. I was pulled over by the state highway patrol and the first thing the cop asked me is what was in the sheath. I said "a tool." He said "no, it's a knife." I said "no sir, I'm an electrician it's a tool." He said "Oh" end of conversation. Cops, go figure.
 
I think it'd take a lot more brutality than I am typically capable of to kill someone with a knife. That's a pretty horrible experience just from the times I've accidentally stabbed myself, can't imagine how much it'd suck to get stabbed in a fight.

Push comes to shove, I'll shove hard, but probably with a gun for humanities sake.

Knives? Tools in my book.
 
I guess it takes all kinds. I have about 45 and I'm a knife nut too. I just don't collect, I sell off and accumulate more expensive knives.

I counted in my kitchen cutlery. My knives range from a $20.00 Douk Douk to my $800.00 Hattori Gyuto.

The average price of my knives was probably below $50.00 when I started getting serious about cutlery in 1986. Now my average folder is about $125.00 and my fixed blade knives are averaging over $250.00 because of high end Japanese kitchen cutlery.

Just yesterday I ordered a $240.00 Skookum Bush Tool Mk. I that I'll be lucky to see next January.

This one's a tool.

sbt6.jpg


sbt2.jpg


Mine will be tan micarta with CPM 3V steel. I can hardly wait.
 
Just yesterday, a guy was walking around the office looking for a knife. One guy said, "I don't have one, I don't carry a weapon at work," to which I replied, "He's not looking for something to cut a throat or stab someone in the heart with -- he's looking for a tool. Here, this is a tool," and handed him a pocketknife.

Lots of less than clear thinking in the world.
 
A weapon is a tool employed to injure, defeat, or destroy an adversary. Weapons may be used to attack and defend, and consequently also to threaten or protect. Metaphorically, anything used to damage (even psychologically) can be referred to as a weapon. A weapon can be as simple as a club or as complex as an intercontinental ballistic missile.
Anything called "weapon" has the potential to kill if it doesn't it can be considered non-lethal. What Weapon will not kill and then be non-lethal. Blitz :confused:
 
I have used my Benchmade Osborne daily for years.

Only three or four times did I consider its potential as a weapon.
(While walking in dark places on the edges of downtown.)

Mostly, it cuts fruit, veges, tape, fabric, paper
... at home, in camp, and other places.

Hey, by the way, speaking of edges ...
 
Most knives can be used as weopons, but legally speaking

All knives are not classified as weapons. At least in this state, you can carry your 21/2 inch folder around in your pocket and it is not considered a concealed weapon. You cannot carry a dirk, dagger or sword as such because they are.

Carry on.

Shooter429
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top