Why Are New Guns Ugly?

[Deaf Smith]

I bet when the S&W Military and Police revolver first came out, old SAA shooters thought the M&P was ugly and fragile.

And compare the SAA to the 1911. Back then the 1911 was a hunk of iron. Looked awful and felt funny.

50 years from now Glock and Sig fans will think the new guns are ugly to and wonder why companies don't make them like they used to.

Deaf

 

[skoro]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Yep. And ugly is, too.

 

[mustang_steve]

Trends change, and that's the same for guns too....in these modern ages, it's more about function than form. While I agree that the Storm looks like something that should have hit the paper-shredder long before anyone gave it a serious thought, the firearm itself performs nicely.

That's what's selling these days, performance over form. I'm still a fan of a aesthetically nice design, but I don't have the money to spend buku bucks on a pretty carry piece. My carry pistol is pure function...and the grip may as well say "Made by Mattel", but I can rest well knowing it will deliver the projectile where intended, when intended.

Can't ask for much more than that from a defensive piece....and that's where the industry is moving these days, to defensive arms instead of fancy arms.

To throw some stupid video gamer comments in, less BBQ, more pew-pew.

 

[Harvey]

Sadly, it is a most divisive generational thing wherein the black gun mystique finds favor over the fine fit and finish of a nice Colt 1911 ... just as cruel progressive politics have taken hold over our more conservative value and ethos. Where have we gone as a nation? What IS it with all of the ugly, mediocre black guns? Can we ever come back from here?

Woe is us.

 

[WarMachine]

Whack the front at more than 5 mph and you replace the whole front part of the car.

I also hear you on the complaint about cars. What's with all the cheap plastic parts? Door handles, switches, etc. are all plastic! My truck is a 1993 Chevrolet C1500, short bed, standard cab, with the 350 V8. My door handles are made of steel, The bumpers are indestructable, and the body is good and solid. My 250 pound self can sit on the hood and not dent it. I keep the grille, bumpers, and exhaust tips polished and a good wax coat at all times. People can't believe it's a 17 year old truck when their 2001 civic is falling apart. The giveaway is the keys for it. People have asked me why I have TWO keys marked GM for it. One's for the doors, the other is the ignition. It runs like a swiss watch, purrs like a kitten, and roars like a dinosaur. I've been rear ended a few times but I never even sweat it. The hitch punches a hole clean through their front end and I just feel a nudge. It also has very nice lines-No overly rounded body panels. Everything is sharp and distinct.

My, oh my.The cars of today are safer then they have ever been. They are DESIGNED to crumple as that's the only we that we know currently, of how to allow the vehicle to absorb the impact and not the soft, fleshy bodies inside.

People may piss and moan about the cost to replace parts from a minor fender bender, but it goes a long way to keep you, your daughter, your father, et. al. alive in an accident that may occur at higher speeds. It still surprises me to hear comments like this. Anyone who has convinced themselves that their 20+ year old design will fair better during a collision at 65 MPH than an S80 because their 20+ year old design is "rock solid" and doesn't show much damage during a 5mph collision is using flawed reasoning.

Are some of you using this line of thought when getting your children into vehicles?

I have a huge appreciation for the classics. I love 'em, and will own at least one (maybe two, maybe three,...) before I die. I'd kill for a '69 COPO. But let's think a little more critically here people.

There may be something to the use of "cheap" materials, but it's simply a cost saving measure. You can a find a lot of quality build materials in cars today, but you're going to pay for it.

 

[WarMachine]

Sadly, it is a most divisive generational thing wherein the black gun mystique finds favor over the fine fit and finish of a nice Colt 1911 ... just as cruel progressive politics have taken hold over our more conservative value and ethos. Where have we gone as a nation? What IS it with all of the ugly, mediocre black guns? Can we ever come back from here?

Woe is us.

How are you defining "mediocre" here? When looking from the perspective of function and reliability for a good price, what will a 1911 do for a shooter that an HK, Glock or M&P won't?

I'll avoid commenting too much on your social commentary. I'm sure you're aware that the civil rights movement and women's suffrage was a progressive one, yes? I hate when people generalize and act like any change from "tradition" is something to be avoided. There's some progressive ideas that I don't agree with, but that movement has a many ideas and is best taken case-by-case instead of just lumping everything together like anyone who agrees with some of it is a card carrying Washington Democrat.

Threads like this really reveal the variation we have in the shooting community. I'm one that wants function or reliability first before I look at anything else when it comes to a gun that may be used to protect my life. If there's a firearm that has proven itself to people more reliable than the competition and has a well thought out design as far as function goes, and happens to be ugly, I'll be more than happy to use it.

Now, this is different than those guns that I just happen to own as collectible items, but most of these ugly black guns aren't marketed as being safe queens and range plinkers.

 

[Marshall]

All it takes to make the so-called ugly MK-III pretty, is a set of grips.

 

[JohnBT]

Why ugly? Cheap? Stupid? Beats me.

I was very interested in the upcoming SIG remake of the P210, until I saw that it came with a space-age finish and wasn't a finely polished blue.

If I'm going to spend $3k on a remake of a fancy gun, they might as well make it blue and charge me $3500. It's not like they're dealing with the entry-level buyers in that price range.

John

 

[ilikepancakes]

Hey at least people don't have to ask what it is when you show it off.

You'll still have to tell most people "No, it's not a Glock". To the average person, handgun = glock no matter what it looks like.:banghead:


On the topic, it sounds like they are ugly because they don't look like what you are familiar with.


Edit:
This....

...looks as ugly to me as this....


So I don't think the material has as much to do with aesthetics as what you do with it.

 

[mgmorden]

you are partially correct pertaining to the CX4 Storm and sci-fi; it was shown on a regular basis on Battlestar Galactica, but it was a steady series than ran 5 years...not a low budget movie;

Interesting tidbit from a BSG nerd: as noted, the Beretta CX4 was shown consistently as the standard issue rifle on that series. The FN Five Seven (another "Space-agey" looking gun ) was normally shown as the issued handgun.

Interesting note though, is that the technology in BSG wasn't supposed to be as "far out" as say, Star Trek. It was intentionally toned down to show things as a capable, but more grungy, future not too far ahead of our own. Compare with the guns shown in the series Firefly for example (another favorite of mine) which is a future which is equally (if not more) advanced, but much more campy and frontier oriented. In that show revolvers and more traditional weapons are more commonly shown.

And I think a lot boils down to that: two competing mindsets. Neither wrong, just different. Do you prefer functional utilitarianism in your guns or do you want a little more "yee-hah!"?

 

[mgmorden]

To throw some stupid video gamer comments in, less BBQ, more pew-pew.

Ahem - the phrase is "less QQ, more pew-pew". The QQ is an emoticon of two eyes with tears streaming down. IE, crying .

 

[mgmorden]

My, oh my.The cars of today are safer then they have ever been. They are DESIGNED to crumple as that's the only we that we know currently, of how to allow the vehicle to absorb the impact and not the soft, fleshy bodies inside.

Very true. It's basically a perpetuated myth about old cars being safer. Yes, they were built like tanks, but newer cards are designed with crash-worthiness SPECIFICALLY in mind these days. A prime example as a video a while back in which one group decided to test a 1959 Chevy Bel Air in a direct crash with a 2009 Chevy Malibu. Lets just say that the Bel-air didn't fare so well:

http://www.wimp.com/cartest/

 

[RedAlert]

Its surprising to me that, after reading so many bashes against modern firearms, that I don't see more Ford Model Ts on the road today.

All things evolve to fit the methods and materials available at the time.

 

[MCgunner]

Fine fitted 1911s? Where might one find one of those? If they are reliable, they're loose as a goose and rattle like a child's toy.

 

[Fastcast]

It's not just about "pretty".....Fine weapons/firearms can handle the rigors of daily use. Many times they are more reliable, last longer and give their owners some pride in ownership, resale value and heirloom qualities, that the cheap but functional, utilitarian tools can never equal.

Personally there's nothing more pleasing to me than the look of a quality/fine firearm with some wear on. The been there and done that look, from an owner who wasn't scared to put a mark on it but used it for what its intent and purpose was. The kind one looks at in awe and says I wonder where that has been. If it could only tell stories.

I've hunted grouse, pheasant, and waterfowl most of my life and I'm now 42.....I been to the field with an 870 Express and harvested birds, no doubt about that but I can assure you the 2x4 with the pipe screwed into the end (IE: 870) will never perform or satisfy like a classic double barrel or finely balances semi-auto like a Beretta, Browning or Benelli. The only thing it does in equal is kill.

Why does one desire a nicer car than a Chevy Malibu? To leave it sit in the garage? I'll let you "utilitarian is all one needs" guys figure that out.

As far as the old timers didn't care about anything but cheap utility, that's hog wash. They bought what they could afford. Don't think for a minute they wouldn't of rather had the graded Parker Bros double or Purdey over the economical Ithaca double or the S&W/Colt revolver over the H&R.

It's called DIGNITY & CLASS, something sorely lacking in today's society. The old timers may have been blue collar, working folk most of the year but when it was time to "dress up" they did so with as much class and style as they could afford and I personally commend them for that. I guess that means I'm getting old too.

I'm not saying ugly/cheap polymer pistols don't have their place. I'm just addressing the fact that some here act as if that's all one needs, times change, by plastic you old idiot, bla, bla, bla.

All one really needs to hunt birds, deer, turkey etc. is an 870 express but every long time hunter I know has evolved beyond just what is necessary to make the kill. ....... Most traditional hunting societies operated this way. Unfortunately the majority of modern society seems not to care or has forgot the reasons why.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Hey MCGunner, that one is STILL prettier than a Hi-Point or Glock!!

 

[mgmorden]

All one really needs to hunt birds, deer, turkey etc. is an 870 express but every long time hunter I know has evolved beyond just what is necessary to make the kill. ....... Most traditional hunting societies operated this way. Unfortunately the majority of modern society seems not to care or has forgot the reasons why.

You know, as chance would have it, my father hands deer and turkey - has all his life. He's now 52. You want to know what he uses? A beat up rusted 870 with replacement plastic stocks (the wood ones got so beat up that it was rattling too bad). Back in the late 80's my mom bought him a nice Browning A-5 Magnum. Beautiful gun. He took it hunting maybe 3-4 times then put it away. He ended up just giving it to me a few years later, because the utilitarian 870 worked better.

And despite that Browning still sitting in my gun cabinet - you know what I use when I go turkey or duck hunting? MY beat up 870 Express, because it just works better.

My 55 year old uncle? He shoots an equally shabby looking old JC Higgins branded Mossberg 500.

Not everyone "evolves beyond just what is necessary to make the kill". Some people just want tools that work well.

 

[Fastcast]

Not everyone "evolves beyond just what is necessary to make the kill". Some people just want tools that work well.

I imagine to some that's all that matters......A Craftsman wrench works but a Snap-On wrench is better......99% of bird hunters that shoot on the wing would take an A5 over an 870 any day.

Your father hunts stationary targets: deer & turkey.......I can assure you an A5 is a better tool than an 870 for any bird on the wing.

 

[mgmorden]

Your father hunts stationary targets: deer & turkey.......I can assure you an A5 is a better tool than an 870 for any bird on the wing.

Deer hunting in my state (SC) with a shotgun is typically dog drives hunting with buckshot (only legal ammo you can use while dog driving). The deer aren't typically stationary. It's essentially "wing shooting" with deer . The A-5 is heavier, less reliable to cycle (that applies with pretty much any auto compared to a pump), and IMHO, doesn't point as well as an 870. To each his own though .

 

[Harvey]

Black pistols, black shotguns, black rifles ... and a black AR15. What is it with kids nowadays? Must everything be plastic and black?

 

[mothermopar]

I'm in my 30's, but have thought the same about guns for sometime. The Single Action Army revolvers, Colt 1911's, Smith and Wesson model 29's... all 'those' guns... they are/were not only functional, but aesthetically pleasing... works of art so to speak. They contained forged parts, no plastic or MIM... firearms that symbolized America's power and industrial might as well as a sense of brutal sophistication and sense of aesthetics.

The Glocks and that genre... they work well and get the job done. To some, that's enough. To me, I'll buy what gets the job done and looks fine too! Even if it costs more. I'll buy less, but in the end, I'll have 'more'.

This newer generation of firearms... they're utilitarian and so is their appearance. Their designs are nuevo European socialist in appearance. Art was in no way incorporated into the designs. Sure they were made to look ok, but that's it. They're bland... all are matte black and have the same general look... they're not that unique from one another... that's why they're all commonly referred to as 'black guns'.

When I was a teen, I wanted to be a ninja and was attracted to the 'black guns' for a short time. Today, I use black guns as a tool at work. Yet, today, I purchase the 'older design' guns and use a Colt 1911 for home defense. My Colt works just as well as a 'black gun' and with a few 10 round mags, the capacity debate is nixed. Plus, she'll hold her value... and I can hammer a nail into a 2x4 with the Colt and it won't crack (no plastic or cheap metal crap).

My next purchase is a SxS 12 gauge with exposed hammers, a Colt coachgun clone. She'll still lay down a can of whoop arse, and it looks utterly stunning with the case hardened finish and deep wood stocks.

There's no opinion involved here: Black guns aren't attractive. They work just fine, but they sure as hell aren't pretty. If you think black guns are pretty, you must love the look of charcoal-colored bricks... if that's your game, so be it.

EDIT: Sad thing is, is that folks buy up these black guns and post videos of themselves shooting an AK47 or M4 as if they're firing a damned blackpowder musket in Kentucky during the 1900s! Leaning back, not squared-up, not balanced... makes me laugh.

 

[inherentical]

 

[Nushif]

I am laughing so hard .... that's a great picture.

 

[Fastcast]

You nailed it!

I'm in my 30's, but have thought the same about guns for sometime. The Single Action Army revolvers, Colt 1911's, Smith and Wesson model 29's... all 'those' guns... they are/were not only functional, but aesthetically pleasing... works of art so to speak. They contained forged parts, no plastic or MIM... firearms that symbolized America's power and industrial might as well as a sense of brutal sophistication and sense of aesthetics.

The Glocks and that genre... they work well and get the job done. To some, that's enough. To me, I'll buy what gets the job done and looks fine too! Even if it costs more. I'll buy less, but in the end, I'll have 'more'.

This newer generation of firearms... they're utilitarian and so is their appearance. Their designs are nuevo European socialist in appearance. Art was in no way incorporated into the designs. Sure they were made to look ok, but that's it. They're bland... all are matte black and have the same general look... they're not that unique from one another... that's why they're all commonly referred to as 'black guns'.

When I was a teen, I wanted to be a ninja and was attracted to the 'black guns' for a short time. Today, I use black guns as a tool at work. Yet, today, I purchase the 'older design' guns and use a Colt 1911 for home defense. My Colt works just as well as a 'black gun' and with a few 10 round mags, the capacity debate is nixed. Plus, she'll hold her value... and I can hammer a nail into a 2x4 with the Colt and it won't crack (no plastic or cheap metal crap).

My next purchase is a SxS 12 gauge with exposed hammers, a Colt coachgun clone. She'll still lay down a can of whoop arse, and it looks utterly stunning with the case hardened finish and deep wood stocks.

There's no opinion involved here: Black guns aren't attractive. They work just fine, but they sure as hell aren't pretty. If you think black guns are pretty, you must love the look of charcoal-colored bricks... if that's your game, so be it.

EDIT: Sad thing is, is that folks buy up these black guns and post videos of themselves shooting an AK47 or M4 as if they're firing a damned blackpowder musket in Kentucky during the 1900s! Leaning back, not squared-up, not balanced... makes me laugh.

 

[ilikepancakes]

Nah man I think this nailed it