Why bother reloading?

[Rancho Relaxo]

I'm sure I could find factory 223 rounds that are much cheaper than my 50g Sierra Blitzkings, but that really isn't the point. I reload rifle cartridges so I can get the best possible accuracy without paying a premium for match ammo. Seems pretty simple to me!

 

[mongoose33]

Certainly a touchy group. I was hoping this discussion would turn into a thread about the best places to find components cheaply and ways to make our hobby a little more inexpensive.

Thanks to the posters who took the time to write a well thought out response that added to the discussion.

To the people who said I'm a troll, you obviously lack the ability to construct a logical response that proves me wrong or adds to the discussion.

You tell us now that you hoped this would develop into a discussion of where to find components cheaply, but your initial post had *nothing* about that at all?

And you're offended that people think you're a troll?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

 

[420Stainless]

Local Wal-marts here don't sell .41Mag, .45 Colt, or 6.8SPC. Also, you can cut the price of most rifle rounds in half even with all new brass. I guess you could make the case that there is no need to shoot less commonly available types, but that would greatly reduce my interest in the sport,

 

[Walkalong]

That's why I'm honestly interested to see what the OP's goals are.

Start an argument? Hopefully not. He did add some Q's later.

What's a troll?

Someone who "trolls" forums looking for an argument. Likes to start them. A "pot stirrer"

The problem lies in the way the OP asked his question, which came off argumentative from the start. If the question had been asked in another way, the responses would have been different, I'm sure.

Agreed. Probably just a poorly worded post.

 

[hossfly]

I didn't think his post was necessarily argumentative. I didn't see where he got his numbers from but I also admit my stock of components is several years old and I may not be up to date on the cost of components vs. factory ammo now.

If someone doesn't want to handload, great. I don't take some sort of offense at that just because I do handload. We probably need to lighten up a bit.

 

[MetalHead]

How bout when your favorite handgun is a 32H&R Mag?
I always feel sticker shock when I do find a box for sale.
Self cast bullets and small powder charges mean primers
are the big cost item. I haven't figured it up in a while but
last time I checked I can load it for much less than 22Mag.
45 AutoRim, 8MM Mauser and 303Brit are in the same boat,
not counting milsurp, expensive when you can
find it and little choice in bullet used.

 

[lgbloader]

Certainly a touchy group. I was hoping this discussion would turn into a thread about the best places to find components cheaply and ways to make our hobby a little more inexpensive.

Thanks to the posters who took the time to write a well thought out response that added to the discussion.

To the people who said I'm a troll, you obviously lack the ability to construct a logical response that proves me wrong or adds to the discussion.

As one poster above pointed out, I guess what's killing me is the hazmat fee's and shipping charges. I would guess by the time I drive 90 miles to closest reloading supply store, and add an additional 4.7% sales tax, I might be getting somewhat close to a shipping and hazmat fee. I could do the math on that too for you degreed mathematicians in the forum

Bottom line, we all love to shoot our firearms. You (OP) are probably someone fun to b.s. with and drink a couple of cold ones with. So drinks all around. Different strokes for different folks. We will have fun shooting our handloads and you have fun shooting your store bought.

LGB

 

[RustyFN]

1000 Win large pistol primers - $25
Hazmat fee - $22.5

This is your first problem. You can buy up to 50,000 primers under the one hazmat fee. You can also buy 48 pounds of powder for one hazmat or 48 pounds of powder and primers mixed. If you are going to buy on-line you need to buy in bulk. I always go in with a friend or two and we buy primers 50,000 at a time and powder 48 pounds at a time.
For example I bought powder last year for $12 per pound and primers for $16 per 1,000. I am loading 9mm for $70 per 1,000, 38 spcl for around $70 per 1,000, 223 for $110 per 1,000 and 45 auto for $25 per 1,000. The reason 45 auto is so cheap is because I cast my own bullets with lead that I have got for free. I will be casting for my other pistols this year and will be able to load them for the same price as the 45 auto.

 

[Walkalong]

How bout when your favorite handgun is a 32H&R Mag?
I always feel sticker shock when I do find a box for sale.

Yep. Factory is expensive, but we can reload it dirt cheap.

 

[Venado]

I love to reload better than shooting. I love to improvise and improve. I developed a bullet lube that was expensive, but does not smoke, and gives 30 f.p.s. increase in velocity. Was it worth it to me? Yes. I make cartridges that can not be equalled by any factory. Do they save me money? Probably not. It is probably like heating with wood. After all the effort, if your time is worth anything, you might not have saved any money. However, a wood fire made from wood that you cut and split feels so much better, and there is a since of satisfaction.

 

[hossfly]

Everyone has their own motivations but unless something's changed in the last 2 or 3 years...maybe due to the current political climate...it was a great deal cheaper for me to handload. My numbers weren't in line with the OP's which made savings a motivation for me.

 

[taliv]

Certainly a touchy group.

no doubt. relax guys.


the trick is to wait for deals. keep a few bucks stashed away to jump on them when they apear, then wait. patience, grasshopper.

for example, i just bought a case of R15 from hi-techammo for $75/5lb which is about 20% off, and because i bought a case, they paid hazmat.

about 1/week i search on 'blemish' at midway and about once/yr I come up with stellar bullet deals. i bought about 60 boxes of 100ct hornady XTP for 45acp for around $6 ea. (i occasionally get hits on scopes with that search too... pretty good deals) That lets me make practice ammo that matches my carry ammo for less than you can buy white box at wally world.

if you drive through missouri, swing by sierra and buy bulk blemished bullets at a substantial discount. (they only sell them in person, unfortunately)

wideners and hi-techammo often have good deals on bullets when you buy 3000-5000 at a time. not so much lately though. a couple years ago, i bought the heck out of M193 pull-downs for AR15 blasting ammo at $75/3000. That's 2.5 cents / bullet and with pulldown powder and regular primers adding about 3 cents, I am still shooting as much 223 as i want for under a dime / bang.

i just did the math myself on some long-range 223 ammo.
$540 / 5000 69g OTM is only 11 cents per shot
$75/ 5lb turns out to be about 5 cents per shot
$25 / 1000 is about 2.5 cents per shot for primers

so if i supply the brass and labor, i'm looking at 18.5 cents per shot, or $185 / 1000. now compare that to the cheapest factory 69/75/77g ammo i can find, which is prvi 69g for about $470/1000.

$470 vs $185 is worth doing to me.

(in reality though, i'm still using CCI 400 primers i bought a few yrs back for $14.50 / 1000, but i've only got a few boxes left and will be forced to switch to wolf soon)

another place to look for deals is at big events. go to knob creek machine gun shoot. talk to the guys blazing away and ask them where to get deals. some of them buy powder in drums.
go to camp perry. lots of specials up there.

 

[taliv]

btw, nothing against you guys who enjoy it, but i hate reloading. i have better things to do. i just do it so i can afford to shoot

 

[atlanticfire]

Reloading is apparently not for people who are bad at math.

Ok I though that was funny. hehehehehe
But seriously if you factoring in hazmat fees and shipping cost you not buying enough of it in bulk to offset those charges.

 

[hossfly]

but i hate reloading. i have better things to do. i just do it so i can afford to shoot

Well clearly you're a bad guy then.

I understand completely. I got in to it 20 years ago and I thought it was neat then. Now it's just a matter of economy for me.

Sure I can ...or at least could....fiddle with loads until I got the nth degree of accuracy out of them but my life doesn't afford me that obsession any more. Certainly nothing against anyone who does it. If I ever get to retire I hope to get back in to those things but it's not in the cards now.

 

[leadcounsel]

I've looked into this a lot of times over the years. IMO the bottom line is that it isn't about saving money. It's really about liking to reload.

If you factor your time into it like an hourly wage job, it would be a very poor paying one or at best not a great paying job.

Frankly I would rather spend time doing something I like.

 

[hossfly]

IMO the bottom line is that it isn't about saving money. It's really about liking to reload.

Honestly that depends on the load. Like I said, I was able to shoot an average of 3 times as much back when I actually compared.

And If you start talking about bullseye and wadcutters in 38's you're talking about a very economical load....of course the current primer situation changes that a bit.

 

[taliv]

I've looked into this a lot of times over the years. IMO the bottom line is that it isn't about saving money. It's really about liking to reload.

If you factor your time into it like an hourly wage job, it would be a very poor paying one or at best not a great paying job.

i disagree. while i would rather spend time doing something i like (shooting), it's not a bad hourly wage.

$470/k for prvi
$185/k for reloads
-------
$285/k difference

$285 / 2 hours = $142.5 per hour wage figuring it takes me about 1 hr for case prep and 1 hr to load on my dillon 1050

if i could do that full-time, that's $292k annual income.

my savings on self-defense quality 45acp is even more


edit: hmm... now that i think about it... it's too bad i don't trust anyone else to reload. i could easily pay local college kids $20/hr and come out way ahead with no work!

 

[Walkalong]

. it's too bad i don't trust anyone else to reload. i could easily pay local college kids $20/hr and come out way ahead with no work!

Labor - $20 an hour.

KaBoom from said labor - Priceless.

 

[RustyFN]

i disagree. while i would rather spend time doing something i like (shooting), it's not a bad hourly wage.

$470/k for prvi
$185/k for reloads
-------
$285/k difference

$285 / 2 hours = $142.5 per hour wage figuring it takes me about 1 hr for case prep and 1 hr to load on my dillon 1050

if i could do that full-time, that's $292k annual income.

I couldn't agree more. That's the same way I look at it when somebody wants to figure time.

 

[Roccobro]

But don't forget to add the haz-MAN charge... You know the insurance, FFL and other licensing and zoning laws et al, ad nauseum that take away from the bottom line....

Justin

 

[BruceB]

Still haven't decided if I load to shoot or shoot to load.

This is a timely thread, because I just began loading the .22-250 on Thursday. I already load about 25 other calibers, but this one is new on my bench.

Costs, with BRAND NEW Remington brass:

Case: $0.41

Primer: $0.03

Powder (35 grains): $0.10

Bullet (55 V-max in bulk from Midway): $0.17

Total, with NEW brass is 71 cents per round. Factory loads in the same store were $1.20 per round. Net saving: 49 cents per round.

I don't push my loads very hard, and I can confidently state that I'll get at least ten loads per case, which takes the brass cost per load to FOUR cents, and the total per round goes down to a mere 34 cents....compared to $1.20. My loads will be more accurate in my rifle, too.

For a wilder comparison, my .416 Rigbys cost about fifteen CENTS, compared to as much as ten dollars per round.

Yep, my per-round costs are a LOT lower...but I also shoot a great deal and eat up the savings!

 

[Onward Allusion]

How long does it take you to create the 3,000?

Clarence
<SNIP>
I just loaded 500 rds of .45 ACP for .11 / rd = $5.50 / box and I don't cast my own bullets. You can't figure in the cost of the brass because you can re-use it many times. You can amortize the cost of the brass over 10 loadings (which is conservative if using light loads) your cost per box would be about 25 cents for .45 ACP
Your cost at Wal-Mart - $17.00 / box.
You're spending $340 / 1000 rds.
I'm spending $110 / 1000 rds.
I'm saving enough to pay for my complete Dillon 550b every 3,000 rds. At the rate I shoot that's about every 2 months.

 

[ohioshooter]

not everyone has to pay a haz-mat and/or shipping fee so you have to take that cost out as well.

 

[jcwit]

How long does it take you to create the 3,000?

Does this really matter? Or do you put a dollar amount on every hour of every day you live?

This directed at those who keep telling us how much their time is worth.