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Why did Makarov supercede Tokarev?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Retro, Sep 28, 2006.

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  1. Retro

    Retro Member

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    I always had this question... I have a Makarov right now, and the gun was great and all but the round is far under-powered than the Tokarev round, and so why was Tokarev obsolete? and what was the Russians' rationale to replace a powerful pistol with a compact/underpowered one? As a fan of 1911, I am also drawn to the 1911-like shape of the Tokarev pistol, and I am thinking about getting one. Any advice against this? Is this pistol reliable in general? I am referring to the Chinese-made "Saturday night special". It's so hard to find one nowadays...
     
  2. outofbattery

    outofbattery Member

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    Contrary to popular belief,sidearms aren't used very frequently in combat and for the most part are issued to officers who need a weapon but very rarely have occasion to use them.The Makarov is powerful enough to fit the bill of what is needed,small enough to be unobtrusive to carry.The main reasons for replacing the TT seem to be that the Soviets wanted an easier to use,more user friendly pistol and to that end,the Mak has it in spades over the single action,safety-less TT,not to mention far better ergonomics.
     
  3. ETXhiker

    ETXhiker Member

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    Ax, kakoi durak...

    Because, of course, tavarish Makarov was found to be an enemy of the people...
     
  4. ETXhiker

    ETXhiker Member

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    :eek: Uh, I meant comrade Tokarev. Late at night, trying to be funny. :eek:
     
  5. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

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    why was Tokarev obsolete?
    what was the Russians' rationale to replace a powerful pistol with a compact/underpowered one?

    I would guess that the Makarov is less expensive to manufacture than the original Tokarev. It's just as reliable if not more so than the Tokarev. The round choice probably had to do with the fact that blowback designs were simpler and less expensive to produce, and 9x18 is at the top of the list of blowback cartridges.

    All speculation on my part. Maybe Max P. will come along and shed some light.

    jm
     
  6. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    don't forget the severe overpenetration

    of the 7.62x21mm tokarev round.

    If you want to make a pencil sized whole through a stack of people at 75 yards hiding behind a wooden fence... it is the perfect round.
     
  7. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Why did the US military almost do the same thing :confused:
     
  8. bakert

    bakert Member

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    quote;"don't forget the severe overpenetration" Judging from the way they did most things, I don't think the Soviets would have worried too much about a little something like that.:eek:
     
  9. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    here's the excerpt from the book "Modern combat pistols" that will be published by the end of this year.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    Thanks Max!!
    As usual, you give great insight into these matters!!
     
  11. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I ad the opportunity to fire a Stechkin during a Com-Bloc weapons familiarization training cycle while I was in the Army.
    This was in 1982 and God only knows where they got it from but I thought it was a pretty decent select fire handgun.
    With a stock in place I would probably consider it a better option than a Model 712 Mauser Broomhandle but I have yet to have the opportunity to fire one of these.
    Even though the Makarov is a double action handgun it is less complex to manufacture than the Tokarev.
    The magazines require less raw material to manufacture and anybody who has been in the military knows how long magazines last in hard use.
    The ammunition is easier to produce and uses less powder and cartridge brass and a heavier bullet but so what, lead is abundant in Russia, cartridge grade brass is not and now you know why the majority of Russian ammunition, even today, is made with steel cartridge cases.
    Less leather is required to produce a Makarov holster.
    I could go on but I think you see the economic reasons alone are enough to justify the switch.
    From what I understand Tokarev pistols are still extremely popular with criminal elements in Russia because even today the round will penetrate most lightweight ballistic armor.
    The only vests that reliably stop the steel core bullets utilize ceramic inserts.
     
  12. Omega

    Omega Member

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    Hey Maxim,
    Spasibo for the great (as always) info.
    Keep up your website
     
  13. SeanSw

    SeanSw Member

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    I was able to fire a stetchkin w/ shoulder stock with John Ross over the summer. It was the only time I've fired a 9X18 and the experience was probably not representative of a Makarov, but it sure was fun. It has a much slower cyclic rate compared to the others but remained quite controllable.

    It was also one of the only guns to go the entire day without a failure of any kind.
     
  14. CAnnoneer

    CAnnoneer Member

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    A lot of good points above. I'd add that the soviets did not have a "police" weapon but used the military pistol for the purpose. So, ideally it has to be small, light, easy to carry, conceilable while remaining effective against unarmored targets. PM is far better in terms of these criteria than TT. Ergo, the switch.
     
  15. Mortech

    Mortech Member

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    Owning both types I can tell you the Makarov is alot friendlier and safer to carry than the Tokarev especially as a summer CCW weapon . Also there is a good selection of good self defense ammo in 9X18 , I've found none readily available in 7.62X25 .
     
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