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Why did Smith & Wesson pick MA as their home state, considering...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by SIGfiend, Mar 10, 2011.

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  1. SIGfiend

    SIGfiend Member

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    ...how MA is overwhelmingly anti-gun?
     
  2. JoelSteinbach

    JoelSteinbach Member

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    They have been there before all the restrictions
     
  3. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    you do realize that S&W has been there for approaching 200 years right?
     
  4. SIGfiend

    SIGfiend Member

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    Yeah, but why haven't they moved out since the changing of the times? It's not a very friendly place for gun companies to be, just like CA.
     
  5. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    when the hassle begins to cost more money than the move they likely will. But watch out and be careful what you wish for as they could do what many/most American corporations have done and move production right outside the country
     
  6. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    Laws that apply to manufacturers and those surrounding civilian ownership are not necessarily related in any way, for one thing... and as others have said, they were likely there long before the libs.
     
  7. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

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    Not only is the political climate poor, but I'm sure that labor is much more expensive in Mass. than other states with weaker union rights, and I'm certain that their taxes are higher there than other states. They are established where they are, it's where their buildings, equipment, and families are. Sure, all of that could be moved, but maybe they don't want to, maybe it'd cost too much to move. Ruger moved a good chunk of their company from N.H. to Arizona, so it has been done. S&W is a much older company than Ruger however, they may just be too rooted in Mass.
     
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    The hassles of civilian/citizen firearms ownership in MA probably doesn't affect their bottom line one dollar. Why would they move?
     
  9. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    As mentioned, the laws don't apply to them the same way they do for individuals. Also, you try moving a multi-million-dollar company, including all the manufacturing facilities. Then let us know how easy and cheap it was to relocate, re-tool, re-hire an entire workforce and get back up to speed again.
     
  10. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    200-150 years ago, MA and CT and to some extent RI, NY and PA where the industrial engines that made the world turn. Raw materials flowed in from the West, got converted to goods, and flowed out to the world.
     
  11. SIGfiend

    SIGfiend Member

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    AZ or TX would be a better home for several reasons. Both places are more business friendly and both those states would buy more guns than MA ever would with all their <deleted> and restrictive laws. Like another guy said too, the tax rates are lower than MA.

    You'd get more sales from those states' residents than you normally would because it'd be easier to receive repair service and parts, you could come in and look at new prototypes/show room debuts, have access to in-house training facilities like what SIG and HK offer...isn't that pretty compelling?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2011
  12. JoelSteinbach

    JoelSteinbach Member

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    They are located on the right side of MA, a lot more consevative than the Boston side.
     
  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    And when those tax incentives are calculated to be of greater value than the obscene cost of moving a huge manufacturing facility and all its workers 2,000 miles -- they will.

    They already DO! So what? They aren't going to by more guns because S&W now is located in Dallas or Flagstaff.

    Really? Naaah. I can see all I need to know at a gun shop or gun show. I don't need to visit the manufacturer to decide which gun I can shoot best. And such a small percentage of shooters ever take any training at all that they can't count on offering it to bring in more than a (relative) handful of sales.

    And I doubt very many people really consider ease of shipment for warranty work when they're buying a new gun. If I like an M&P more than I like a Glock, am I likely to choose the Glock anyway because I live within a few hours' drive of the repair center? No way.

    These manufacturers sell guns all over the country and all over the world. They could lose every sale within 50 miles (or even within their entire home state, probably) and hardly feel the hit. They aren't basing their sales goals on being "local" to their customers. Location just is not important.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  14. 09prknotts

    09prknotts Member

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    The company moving to AZ isn't necessarily going to get S&W more sales from that state people are going to buy the guns they like and want regardless, its not like S&W isn't sold in AZ. Plus them relocating to AZ from MA after almost 200 years might actually cost them some loyal customers from MA. Just because the state is liberal doesn't mean everyone who lives there is, and I bet that there are people in MA who own guns too.
     
  15. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

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    Just the other day, when I had a little free time and was passing through Shelton, CT, I thought I'd look up a gun shop. So I Googled "gun Shelton, CT", and wrote down the address 191 Canal St.

    While parts of Shelton are filled with office buildings full of white collar workers and probably pretty prosperous, the downtown is the relic of an old industrial town built on a river. Old railroad bridges cross the rivers at odd angles. It's too gritty and decrepit to call picturesque. Canal St is right next to river, and 191 is at dead end between some 150-year-old brick buildings. It looks like a set for a TV drug drop. There was obviously no retail gun shop there, so I went on my way.

    When I got home, I checked in Google to see what I had done wrong, and clicked a Google-provided link: http://www.charterfirearms.com/. I don't know what they actually do there, but I doubt any product goes though that location. For all I know, it's where their web programmer hangs out.

    Next time, maybe I'll find Valley Firearms, which where I meant to go in the first place.
     
  16. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

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    Studies show that the most reliable predictor of where a corporation will move to is where the CEO lives. If westerner gets to be head of S&W, then maybe they'll move.

    Cerberus is moving all their gun manufacturing around, but they're so big that the CEO can stay put.
     
  17. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    For the same reasons that many gun companies are located in now unfriendly states - it's where they have been established; it's where they feel they can get the most talented labor force for their needs; and where they undoubtedly have very little debt or mortgage since they have been there for such a long time
     
  18. Boomerang

    Boomerang Member

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    I don't think repair service would change much.
    I can walk right up to S&W to drop off a gun for repair, but they want it shipped, even if you live nearby.

    They already do have a showroom where you can browse and buy guns. You can also rent anything they sell, and shoot it there on the range. They already have in-house training facilities.

    Massachusetts gave S&W a 6 million dollar tax break to stay.
     
  19. zorro45

    zorro45 Member

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    why S&W in Springfield

    1. excellent pool of skilled workers, some a legacy from when Springfield Armory was the "high tech" arms R&D facility in the U.S.
    2. Close and convenient proximity to Bradley Airport to facilitate training programs for police,military from overseas and far away in the U.S.
    3. Lots of money invested in infrastructure for manufacturing, R&D, range, computer simulators, store
    4.large dedicated cadre of instructors for excellent training classes
    5. many educational institutions nearby producing engineers with expertise in mechanical engineering, metallurgy, polymer science, etc.
    6. some of the best surgeons in the world for repairing the work-related hernias of the employees which develop lifting heavy trays of gun parts (personal opinion)
     
  20. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    1908 was a million years ago in internet years.

    SmithandWessonfactory1908.gif

    DSCN6549smaller.jpg
     
  21. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    1. They were in business long before MA's gun laws

    2. State laws like MAs typically exclude manufacturers anyway if the guns are going out of state or are for LEO/MIL customers. For example, Colt makes M16 and M4 machine guns in CT for military and LEO sales worldwide. But it is illegal to own a M16 in CT.

    3. Massachusetts was one of the centers of the industrial Revolution and in centuries past was a major worldwide transportation hub for raw materials, foundries, factories, etc. At the same time....AZ was a barren desert with a couple one-horse towns in the middle of nowhere.

    Also, I completely fail to see how the manufacturer being in a state or another would somehow boost sales. Grip size, weight, handling, recoil, sights, aftermarket options, warranty, price, these things are what sell guns. Not "was it made in AZ or MA?"

    While these cities may be an empty shell of what they once were, you'd do well to study your history and learn about what amazing, vital industrial centers to the entire world these places once were.

    Yes, even Trenton.

    2rqdez7.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  22. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I don't think you would want Smith & Wesson to move their firearms manufacturing business to another state. They are doing just fine where they are as I understand it. But, IF they decided to move, more than likely the majority of the employees would not be given the opportunity to move with the company. The result is likely a more poorly manufactured product. Let them stay just where they are.

    Maybe Taurus could move from Brazil to the US where their dominant market is? Why don't they? Cost.
     
  23. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    Hmmm. Given that they have been there since 1873 (?) or so...I think they would be somewhat reluctant to leave.

    When they are forced to, they will. Not one moment before. Just like Colt in CT, Springfield in IL, Remington in NY.

    All are distinctly anti-states. Corporate momentum is a powerful force.
     
  24. .338-06

    .338-06 Member

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    eye5600, Charter Arms gives their address as 281 Canal St., not 191. Google let you down sir!
     
  25. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

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    You're right. I typed it wrong in my post. I should've taken a picture.
     
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