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Why do alot of people say things like...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by effengee, Sep 5, 2004.

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  1. effengee

    effengee Member

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    "If you started shooting at a Bad Guy, you'll probably miss and hit somebody innocent or just get yourself killed"

    As opposed to what?

    Taking one in the back of the head because I was too busy complying with everything he said???

    Watching my friends/family/fellow human being executed while I hid my firearm for fear of legal entanglement???

    Respectfully, I must say screw that!
    I'm gonna make his day a dying hell!

    If I die defending someone or spend the rest of my life in jail for ridding the world of Mr. Bad Guy then it was worth it...
    Many is the time I've heard of some repeat offender getting let free.
    Why aren't we just executing them?
    The Government won't even have to pay me to clear out the prisons...
    Just line up the repeaters one at a time...

    I'm a pretty good shot... Most gun owners are...
    I'm no John Wayne or Annie Oakley but I can honestly say beyond doubt that against anything from the size of a soda can to a human target, up to a distance of 100 feet, I'm the most deadliest SOB they'll ever meet...

    If you're going to carry a firearm but are not willing to use it makes me wonder why you have it in the first place...
    Please don't carry solely for vanity, It's like those idiots who strap a Mt. bike or a Kayak to the roof of their BMW's and Saab's and drive around for months with no intention of ever using them... It just looks really cool...

    I don't keep a fire extinguisher to go around fighting fires, but if one comes to me I have the proper tool to stop it...
    The same with my firearm, I don't go around fighting crime, but if it comes to me, I have the proper tool to deal with the situation...

    jimi

    Celebrating my birthday and Patriots day on 9/11 by shooting Osama targets with my AK, how will you remember September 11th?
     
  2. monsternav

    monsternav Member

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    Remember: Most Liberals/Gun-Banners project their own fears on the rest of the world.

    I will be remembering 9/11 by shooting an IDPA match.
     
  3. RJ357

    RJ357 Member

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    As opposed to letting the police do it, who only miss 4 out of 5 shots.
     
  4. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...Why do alot of people say things like..." Because their only exposure to firearms and shooters is from TV and movies. They just don't know any better.
     
  5. Griff

    Griff Member

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    First, explain the 4 golden rules to them. A lot of the antis I've spoken with are suprised to hear that we voluntarily police ourselves.
    Maybe they'd like to find out what shooting's all about next time you go plinking? (in a controlled, professional, well-lit, public environment, of course)

    Then consider their their initial argument that you'll miss what you're shooting at. With this crowd, I'd have to say "Not likely."
     
  6. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Why?

    Because an experienced man once noted:

    "In a firefight, you'll do about as well as your worst day at the range."

    Not always true for some of us. Very true for many of us. A distinct
    possibility for all of us...even those of us who have been there, done that.

    You can get an idea of how you'd do...just an idea, mind you. Run a 100-yard sprint as hard as you can run to get your heart and respiration rate up. Engage a target at 20 feet on signal while a friend throws handfuls of gravel at you from 20 feet as hard as he can throw. Put a time constraint
    on hitting the target of two seconds from signal to shot...3 8-ring hits required to win...On the signal, move toward imaginary cover that is 10 feet away like your life depended on it. Make a 50 dollar bet with this friend that you won't miss.

    Just to make it interesting, strip your shirt off so that your bare skin is exposed to the gravel. Let us know how you do.

    Cheers!

    Tuner
     
  7. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Tuner,
    You left out giving a pint or two of blood before the 100 yd. dash :D

    effengee,
    Why do a lot of people say such things?
    Talk is cheap.
    Ignorance knows no bounds.
    They know not about "Survival of the Fittest" nor the Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared"
    The former is probably quite true... as to the latter, I have my doubts. Maybe 10%. Maybe less, judging from what I've seen over the years.
     
  8. Griff

    Griff Member

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    Thanks for sharing those lessons, Tuner. I'd offer to sit down and talk about it with you over a lister bag of coffee some day, but...;)
     
  9. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Lessons

    Yeah! What Baba Louie said!:D Gotta get weak in the knees
    before ya start. Wanna take a guess as to why?
    ____________

    Griff said:

    I'd offer to sit down and talk about it with you over a lister bag of coffee some day, but...

    Yep...When ya get home from the land of Weinerschnitzel and Dark Lager, look me up. I'll put on the coffee and we can talk about anything but...that.:cool:

    Cheers all! Guten day!

    Tuner
     
  10. Majic

    Majic Member

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    edit
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2004
  11. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    "effengee

    Celebrating my birthday and Patriots day on 9/11 by shooting Osama targets with my AK, how will you remember September 11th? "
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ya, me too. And many other days besides.:D

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    Tuner...


    Maybe not EXACTKY the same, but with Simunition, I was able to mozambique the BG about 7 or 8 times in 10, when trying different scenarios, before he was able to get any paint on me! (in a few tries, I took paint, but never COM or in the head!) and I only lost 1 scenario, and was shot BEFORE I got a shot off... (I STILL think he ambushed me, and shot BEFORE I knew he was there, negating the point, since sniping from total concealment will defeat ANYONES carry gun!)

    some scenarios were after running, or while diving for cover, or both... ALL came as a surprise, and my heart WAS beating, EVERY time I saw a gun pointed in my direction!

    Does this count as real-life style adversity training, Tuner, or do I still gotta get pelted W/ gravel? (I hope not, the road-rash from a couple of those dives hurt bas enough!)
     
  13. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Next time I advocate shogun with buckshot for bear protection think of them words (add bowels loosening)

    WildsprayandprayAlaska
     
  14. JeepMaker

    JeepMaker Member

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    People don't say that, SHEEPLE do;)

    And by the way, Hello, this is my first post/reply on this board, solidarity.
     
  15. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    I find this to be very true. Most Liberals and or Gun Grabbers are girly-men as well...

    -Bill
     
  16. sendec

    sendec member

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    Being in a Gunfight is Easy...

    from behind a keyboard. Unfortunately, life isnt as clean and neat as it appears on TV. I daresay the original poster has'nt been in a for-real gunfight. I have talked to those who have and none claim it was as neat, easy and orderly as we might wish.

    Its easy to forget that any and every gunfight to one degree or another represent a failure on our part to see it coming or to handle a situation prior to it escalating to deadly force. The actual unavoidable gunfights that could'nt be resolved by other means are very rare. The best gunfighters are those that never get forced by adversaries or circumstances into having to take a shot.

    Interesting comment about fear - IMHO I found conservatives as a whole to be much more fearful than non-conservatives. This board is an example, largely populated by conservatives who are fearful enough of violence to need to arm themselves, and many who have let that take a central role in their life and psychological landscape. That's second only to a fear of the U.S. Government. Ironic.....
     
  17. sendec

    sendec member

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    Forgot to add two immutable truths

    !) No one is as good of a shot as they think they are.

    2) Everyone could be a better shot that they are now.

    I will never be as fast and accurate as I want to, but I can always improve.
     
  18. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    I think I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one Sendec. There is a big difference between recognizing the fact that bad things can happen and wishing to be prepared for them vs. going around with your head high in the sky ignorant of everything around you such as most liberals are.

    This isn't just with self defense situations it's with everything. You can just tell these types of people when you're driving down the road. They're the ones that aren't paying attention to their surroundings, waiting 30 seconds after the light turns green to go, slowing down to 3 mph in the middle of the road to make their turn oblivious to the fact that there are cars behind them. These people are in their own little world and don't believe that they can effect others and others can effect them. If in fact they wake up or are woken up by someone else they don't know what to do and they are the ones who say "don't resist" and basically freeze in emergency situations.
     
  19. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    fng, people say that because they are projecting their fear and lack of rationale thought upon others and rationalizing their decision to remain helpless.

    There is also the socialistic political dimension of making everyone equally helpless. You, as a gun owner (the capacity to cope), are a threat to the socialist vision.

    Everyone is a good shot on the square range, shooting when they are comfortable, can see well, are not wounded, are not rolling around on the ground. Add realism into your training (or, heck, even go to school on a square range) and you will not be a good shot any longer.

    The best indicia of good training, is never needing it. As sendec says, the goal is the sword of no sword.
     
  20. sendec

    sendec member

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    You say fear like it's a bad thing. As long as a fear is rational and does'nt overpower a person it serves a vitally important purpose. See DeBecker, Gavin: The Gift of Fear, and Solomon, Dr. Roger: various papers.

    I think that making a claim that "liberals are more (or less) fearful than non-liberals" is overbroad and does'nt diferentiate "good" fear and "bad" irrational fear. I really doubt that a person's political ideology plays a great role in their response to a crisis - we are just more likely to notice it in groups we dislike.

    Now look at the number of times we see posts about SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, what gun is best for cougars/zombies/penguins and on.... How many of these represent a statistically realistic fear? Part of the non-liberal mindset does'nt allow us to view these sorts of topics as fears, but they are, by definition. Different people fear different things. We fear criminal attack and the government, if we did'nt we would'nt spend so much time and resources preparing for it. We may not interpret our motivation to do so as fear, because that threatens our self esteem (when it should'nt). Once we have prepared ourselves to an arbitrary point, we become confidant in our ability to master a situation and the fear either subsides, which is bad because it negates the good that fear does and results in overconfidence, or we acknowledge the fear while realizing it is essentially harmless.

    WTH am I talking about? I've got to stop the Nyquil on an empty stomach.

    ET - I've never said that. I wish I had, but someone else deserves the credit

    :)
     
  21. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Often because it is true.

    I hear this kind of statement come up in two situations. One is from dyed-in-the-wool antis who know nothing about firearms and/or shooting. They can be discounted. The other is from other shooters, in response to what I sometimes call the Batman syndrome - "I have a gun, so I am empowered to intervene in every violent or potentially violent situation, even when it may not be smart to do so."

    That rolls off the tounge real easily. Particularly when one has a family of their own to take care of - tough to do from inside prison (or a coffin.)

    Most gun owners are terrible shots. A quick visit to any public range will confirm this. I was at the NRA Range in Fairfax this afternoon, and watched the guy in the next lane miss an 8" Shoot-and-See target at seven yards, shooting slowfire. The guy on the other side of me was somewhat better, but still missed a human-sized sillouhette target, shooting slowfire, at fifty feet. And this was on a warm, dry, well-lit indoor range, with no artifical stress, no time limits, nothing. This is about the median level of skill that I see outside the IPSC and IDPA communities - maybe I just live in an area known for poor shooting, but I don't think so.

    Sigh. You'll forgive me for being somewhat skeptical...

    Listen, effengee, I'm not trying to bust your balls (too much,) but the overall tone of your post indicates that you haven't had much training in deadly force encounters. I urge you to seek some out - even a local NRA Concealed Weapons class. It will be an eye-opening experience.

    - Chris
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    sen, O.K., I'll change that to "as sendec alludes to, the best fight is no fight, seek the sword of no sword.":)
     
  23. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    sendec

    Being in a Gunfight is Easy...
    from behind a keyboard. Unfortunately, life isnt as clean and neat as it appears on TV. I daresay the original poster has'nt been in a for-real gunfight. I have talked to those who have and none claim it was as neat, easy and orderly as we might wish.

    Its easy to forget that any and every gunfight to one degree or another represent a failure on our part to see it coming or to handle a situation prior to it escalating to deadly force. The actual unavoidable gunfights that could'nt be resolved by other means are very rare. The best gunfighters are those that never get forced by adversaries or circumstances into having to take a shot.

    Interesting comment about fear - IMHO I found conservatives as a whole to be much more fearful than non-conservatives. This board is an example, largely populated by conservatives who are fearful enough of violence to need to arm themselves, and many who have let that take a central role in their life and psychological landscape. That's second only to a fear of the U.S. Government. Ironic.....
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    endec,

    I think you confuse fear with being prepaired.

    Several times I've been so fearful at the controls of a helicopter that I was physically shaking but training, skill and sometimes mostly luck got me through.

    Whether it's flying, gunfighting or driving your car you do the best you can to do it well but in any of these activities if you don't have a healthy fear of what might happen than, you don't fully know what you are doing.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This board is an example, largely populated by conservatives who are fearful enough of violence to need to arm themselves,
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You think this is a bad thing??

    I don't fly an aircraft without preflighting it and I carry a gun.

    Not because I'm constantly afraid of crashing or getting in a gun fight or because it's "a central role in my life and psychological landscape".

    I am reasonably careful because that's the INTELLIGENT thing to do.
     
  24. sendec

    sendec member

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    Chris,

    You're a braver person than me touching on that accuracy comment. I guess all the good shots just have'nt been to the same ranges as i frequent. It must be all the liberals I hang out with, no doubt they put some sort of gravity warp into play on my range.

    M2 - right there with ya, I preflight my lawn mower and keep a water filter by my toilet so we can drink out of the tank when the well fails. Preparation is an antidote to fear. Healthy fear is a good thing. The guys who "don't know the meaning of the word fear" are the ones that concern me. I generally try to get them to buy pre-need burial insurance as soon as possible, cause they'll need it before I do.
     
  25. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    sendec, I think a lot of right-wing "fear" is merely escapism and the Peter Pan syndrome. Just look at THR! How many bear and puma threads are there ever week?

    Even though the probability of encontering a bear outside one's imagination is 0.0%, tis better to talk about "which gun for bear" than think about all the problems of the office.

    The other part of the "fear" is Peter Panism. I don't want to grow up and admit that there are no more dragons to slay so I will escape and prepare for TEOTWAWKI, SHTF or bears.:rolleyes:
     
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