Quantcast

Why do I get so many of these?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by CptnAwesome, Jul 5, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Keep shooting till you have 20 shots on the paper. You just might find you have about 16 fliers.
     
  2. Toprudder

    Toprudder Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,764
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I've seen that happen before. How you grip the gun, or even where you place the forward rest, will affect group sizes. I had to try it myself to believe it.
     
    Skgreen likes this.
  3. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    4,648
    Awhile back I petitioned the forum to make the official group size 4 shots but no one listened to me.
     
    Dudedog and Toprudder like this.
  4. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    4,648
    I wonder how often our flyers fly into the center of the group?

    Or, when you say to yourself, “dang, I pulled that one”, but when you look it’s with the rest of your shots. How often do we exclude those? ;)
     
    someguy2800 and Toprudder like this.
  5. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,434
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Did you notice that the two “groups” are not in the same place relative to the bullseye’s? What would it look like if you laid those two over each other?
     
    Demi-human, Skgreen and higgite like this.
  6. higgite

    higgite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,174
    This ^^^

    One "flyer" is high and one is low. Overlap the two groups and you get one group with no flyers.
     
    Demi-human and Skgreen like this.
  7. z7

    z7 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,113
    I also think it depends on the accuracy of the firearm. my AR's, i am happy with 10 shots in 1.5" and don't seem to have too bad of a problem getting that. to determine accuracy I need to shoot more rounds in a group because they are spread enough that it is hard to get a feel for what the gun likes.

    with my PRS gun, i am unhappy with anything over 1" I recently tested my load against a new primer, a Fed 210m instead of the usual CCI BR2. 8 shots from 43.5g to 45g of varget all grouped in a .75 ragged hole. this is normal for the rifle and it is immediately apparent when the load does not shoot well.

    I then shot 3x3 shot groups at at 44g, 44.5g and 45g to get more chrono data and to see the grouping.

    I ended with a 5 shot group of 44g to verify that I like that load.

    the group average for the 3x3 was .6"
    the 5 shot group was 1.2" with vertical spread because I screwed up my position and hurried before the range went cold. my 44g of varget load shoots (ES of less than 10fps with 25 shots on record) well enough that I am competitive in the local PRS match and only lose points because I compromise my position, make a mental error (shoot the wrong target) or make a bad wind call.
     
  8. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,154
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Only because it hasn't been said yet....


    "You didn't do your part. If you did do your part, it wasn't all day."

    Signed,

    Every firearm forum ever
     
    CptnAwesome, Skgreen and Nature Boy like this.
  9. Skgreen

    Skgreen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Messages:
    681
    Location:
    Houston
    I'm (repeatedly) guilty of just about every error than can be made.

    I'm getting better though,,,

    Had my first ever 'one ragged hole' experience just the other day.

    9 mm Beretta PX4 / 124 gr Extreme RN / 3.7 Sport Pistol

    1 target / 7 yds / 30 minutes / 120 rounds,,,
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  10. Engineer1911
    • Contributing Member

    Engineer1911 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Augusta, GA
    Put your butt on the bench, chamber 1 round & fire, cycle the bolt, chamber round & fire. Repeat for 4 rounds, but don't feed ammo from mag, feed from open bolt position 1 round at a time.

    THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: Have some one else use the spotting scope. Your job is to consistently shoot 4 rounds without looking at group size, focus only on the target. When I follow this method, I usually shoot my smallest groups.
     
    Toprudder and CptnAwesome like this.
  11. CptnAwesome
    • Contributing Member

    CptnAwesome Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    Alabama
    Yeah those were two totally different loads.
     
  12. CptnAwesome
    • Contributing Member

    CptnAwesome Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    Alabama
    I haven't tried factory ammo, it's a new rifle. Copper fouling may be coming into play after about 30rds...

    I have found loads that shoot 1" or less consistently in it though. Just seems to me that if the rifle doesn't like the load they should be scattered more. But I'm anything but an expert
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  13. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,765
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI
    I have a rifle that doubles.

    If I shot three I would think there was a flier about a half inch out, ruining my one hole group and embarrassing me and my half inch rifle.

    Then for, statistical measures, I shot two ten shot groups. Two here, two here, two here, two over there and two right here.

    I discovered that I owned a ten shot three quarter inch rifle. Still a remarkable feat, and pride reinstated, I now use ten as the mark. For target, non-hunting firearms.

    Shooting is fun, keep going. Conversely, stack the three shot targets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
    Skgreen likes this.
  14. LUCKYDAWG13

    LUCKYDAWG13 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,482
    Location:
    Illinois
    CptnAwesome likes this.
  15. spitballer

    spitballer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,036
    Location:
    Central FL
    A reduced load might group better in a new bbl with fresh tooling marks.
     
  16. Erief0g
    • Contributing Member

    Erief0g Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Is it me? Dunno.

    My S&W 629 44 mag takes the first one or two shots out of a clean barrel as flyers. I've proven it to myself right or wrong. I always put three to five on paper before judging my ammo.

    Perhaps it's normal but I've never had to do that with any other of my handguns
     
    Toprudder likes this.
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    60,911
    Location:
    Alabama
    My guns do that, but it is just me settling in, and sometimes I never do. *sigh*

    :)
     
  18. flintlock

    flintlock Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    On a few of my single shot pistols when I'm shooting for groups I will get two or three touching and then really concentrate for the next shot. I found I was gripping the pistol tighter trying to will the shot into the group. It always put the round under the others. Not sure about he rifles but when I shoot the few rifles I have I make sure my front bag and rear bag under the stock is always in the same place and try not to grip the stock any more than I have to to get the shot off.
    Mike
     
    Toprudder likes this.
  19. Archie

    Archie Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,357
    Location:
    Hastings, Nebraska - the Heartland!
    Two thoughts, not mutually exclusive.

    I just read an article about this. Not all factory bullets are 'perfect'. They are within specifications, and will serve normally, but they are very minimally not perfect.

    Second thought: Does the overall group size serve your purpose? The common deer has an eight (or so) inch 'target'. National Match Course (High Power Rifle) has a six minute of angle V (or X or whatever the heck it's called now-a-days) ring. Shooting bench rest? Not so well.

    I'd fire three or four of those three shot groups, not all at once. Check the average. That is probably what you can expect all the time.
     
    Toprudder and CptnAwesome like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice