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Why do muzzles flip up?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by neededausername, Jan 6, 2009.

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  1. neededausername

    neededausername Member

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    I was wondering when a gun is fired why does the muzzle flip upwards instead of some other direction?
     
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    because of the direction and location of reciprocating parts in relation to the hands (and shoulder) of the shooter, as well as the vector of the bullet and expanding gases in relation to those hands (and shoulder).
     
  3. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    It's about action, reaction and pivot points.

    With handguns the barrel is higher than your wrist. When the handgun is fired the forces pushing the bullet down the barrel also push the pistol against your hand. Your wrist become a pivot point for these forces. Since the barrel is above your wrist the firearm will tend to flip up, trying to "roll around" your wrist. Hold a pistol sideways, "gangsta style," and you may note the barrel tends to flip to the side.

    Similar holds true for long guns, however the shoulder becomes the pivot point.

    Firearms designed to direct the forces into major muscle groups or bones tend to exhibit less flip. Think of the AR platform. While there is a considerable amount of force propelling the projectile, the barrel tends to be low with a higher sightline than many other designs. This directs the reactive forces more into the shoulder instead of over or around it, resulting in less muzzle flip.

    Similarly in handguns, there's been recent talk of a new thumb-operated single shot pistol intended for senior citizens (the Palm Pistol). People with limited mobility in their hands are likely to find a design which directs the forces into the palm of the hand (and thus along the line of the bones in the forearm) to be more comfortable to shoot. With such a design there is less "flip" or rolling of the wrist, which can be painful.

    Of course, this is just the way I see it. Maybe I'm wrong and a kinesiologist or physicist will be along to better explain it.
     
  4. yenchisks

    yenchisks member

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    so hypothetically if i turn a rifle upside down and shot it, it would go down.
     
  5. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    yes.
     
  6. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    If the barrel is then below the pivot point, I would think yes.
     
  7. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Correct. As for why rifles normally have their buttstock below the center of recoil, there's a very good reason: a muzzle that jumps isn't imparting all of its energy to your shoulder. Part of it is diverted into rolling. Having a stock that goes straight behind the action would seriously hurt you with many calibers, and could even dislocate your shoulder.
     
  8. 7.62X25mm

    7.62X25mm member

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    And you hold a full-auto sideways it sprays an arc.

    Shooting the 45 ACP "grease gun" straight up at the enemy was called "zipping them up." Let recoil climb the muzzle straight up center of mass.
     
  9. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    I'll be glad when someone figures out a recoilless handgun. C'mon people, it's 2009 already! Time's a-wastin'!:D
     
  10. ojh

    ojh Member

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    The Gyrojet was recoilless. Did not quite catch on, though.
     
  11. ar10

    ar10 Member

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    I always thought it was magic. Hmmm, learn something new every day.
     
  12. harmonic

    harmonic member

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    This gun is reputed to minimize muzzle flip as its barrel is lower than usual.

    [​IMG]

    The Mateba.
     
  13. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    thumb-operated single shot pistol intended for senior citizens (the Palm Pistol).

    to easy to be mistaken for their inhaler.........

    about recoil is up because the sky is the limit
     
  14. nutter

    nutter Member

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    I made this to help.

    [​IMG]

    Did it help?
     
  15. rabidgoldfish

    rabidgoldfish Member

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  16. S&Wfan

    S&Wfan Member

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    If a right handed gangbanger points a sideways Jennings or Glock at you, dodge quickly to your left and duck, then fire as trained . . . he'll probably miss to your right.

    Just don't jump to your right!!!
     
  17. -v-

    -v- Member

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    I recall that the soviets had made a competition shooting pistol where the barrel and action was located in-line with the shooter's wrists and arm-bones. The Olympic committee banned it after its debut on the grounds that it gave a far too unfair advantage to the user. One of the grounds was probably that it had no muzzle flip period, allowing for very fast and accurate shooting.

    Also, average_shooter nailed it 100%.
     
  18. yeti

    yeti Member

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    Cause it would look funny if they flopped down!:evil:
     
  19. alex_h

    alex_h Member

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  20. neededausername

    neededausername Member

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    thanks, I knew I would get the answer to my question from you guys. It wasn't really important, just one of those things that I got curious about for some reason.
     
  21. TRGRHPY

    TRGRHPY Member

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    Viagra bullets?
     
  22. SDC

    SDC Member

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    Here's a picture of the pistol -v- speaks of, the Russian MCZ (also called the "Hacksaw"; basically, a reworked Margolin target-pistol, flipped upside down so that the recoil goes straight back through the shooter's middle finger); after the Russians took a medal with this pistol (silver, I think), they rewrote the rules to specify that no competition pistol could have a barrel lower than the top finger of the firing hand.

    Margolin_MCZ_RF_pistol-1.jpg
     
  23. RPCVYemen

    RPCVYemen Member

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    Note that this can help make a revolver have a much lower perceptible "kick" back into a shooters hands. A lot of the recoil energy is absorbed as the handgun rolls up in your hand.

    For example, my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 LC shooting 255 gr SWCs has less felt recoil than a pistol shooting a lighter round at slower velocity. Of the Ruger's usually much heavier, which also makes a difference.

    Mike
     
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