Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why do some Milsurp Firearms Come in with no Surplus Ammo?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Crawfish141, Jul 27, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Crawfish141

    Crawfish141 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Ca
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Location:
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    It's not so much supply that's the problem, it's customs and import laws that vary between firearms and ammo.
     
  3. Clifford

    Clifford Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    Arizona
    Surplus ammo for the m95 isn't cheap for sure and hard to find. I gave up on surplus ammo for mine and buy Hornaday ammo for it. At $25-$27 for 20 rounds it ain't cheap but it's available online.

    As for the Nagant, I feel your pain mine is a Swiss model chambered in 7.5x22. That's a hard round to find.
     
  4. Crawfish141

    Crawfish141 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Ca
    I'm especially curios about the Nagant, because I know we can get Russian surplus ammo.
     
  5. everallm

    everallm Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,504
    You're surprised it's getting harder to find, obscure, no longer manufactured in bulk, limited supply, surplus ammunition ?
     
  6. fatelk

    fatelk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    Oregon
    When they first started bringing them in, 15 years ago or so, ammo for the 8x56R was cheap; 10 to 15 cents a round, IIRC. Some folks would buy it by the crate and go through a couple hundred rounds at a time.:what:ouch.
     
  7. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    The United Nations has in place many restrictions on the export of ammo. Some countries can sell some old arms without any problems but face being cut off from UN money if they sell ammo.
     
  8. everallm

    everallm Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,504
    Errrrr BS.

    Unless a nation is specifically a named one under a UN or Security Council arms embargo, such as North Korea there are NO binding or enforceable penalties.

    Don't try and make the UN a bogeyman on this it isn't, the ACTUAL possible one you are probably reaching for is ITAR which is purely home grown.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    No, ITAR really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    I never said there were penalties or embargoes, I said that the UN has been known to withhold certain money from countries that export small arms. Some countries don't care, some need the money. Refusal to "voluntarily" participate in the PoA has financial impacts.

    http://disarmament.un.org/cab/poa.html

    Read the fine print about what the UN considers "illicit trade". Also note that the PoA has pretty significant record keeping and tracking requirements that many countries don't want to fool with for ammo.

    "Disarmament" to the UN means much more than getting rid of nukes and landmines.

    http://disarmament.un.org/CAB/salw.html


    Read up on the South African ammo and ARMSCOR debacle for examples of this. SA put laws in place in accordance with the PoA and ARMSCOR violated them, which was almost impossible not to do given the wording of some of that stuff. Now there is no more SA ammo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  10. Publius1688

    Publius1688 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    460
    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    Have you considered handloading? One of the reasons I'm getting into that part of our hobby is the scarcity and expense of obscure rounds.
     
  11. everallm

    everallm Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,504
    Still BS, the POA you point to has squat to do with any non existent UN banning on surplus ammunition,

    The POA has not been ratified, accepted, signed off etc for the last 7 plus years and is still going nowhere so I fail to see how it has any effect, in any case.....

    This is a non binding, no penalty, memorandum around a specific goal, to whit the ILLEGAL trafficking of weapons. No enforcement, no fines, NOT applicable to LEGAL importation, in other words, nada.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  12. Avenger

    Avenger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    647
    Well, the M95 ammo became pretty much obsolete in 1940, and was never produced in huge quantities (by Mosin and Mauser scales, at least) before that. A lot of it was poorly stored and ruined. Some was pulled down and recycled during the war. There was no reason to produce it after WWII, since the rifles that fired it were obsolete.

    Nagant revolver ammo was used up after the war, Mak production had caught up with demand, and since the revolver was obsolete.....It wasn't the easiest ammo to produce either.
     
  13. Nicodemus38

    Nicodemus38 Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    583
    for a while now certain factions in the political arena have been trying to ban all military grade bullets from civilian purchase and ownership. Hence they have been putting road blocks up on importation and thus civilian purchasing.

    At the same time, certain ammunition has not been made by a government in a long itme. For example 8x56 hasnt been officialy made by a military since the Nazis made in in the 1930s.
     
  14. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    The UN has a well known and long history of being anti gun.

    Not sure why anyone would argue that, but whatever.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  15. cchris

    cchris Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    645
    Location:
    Clemson
    I think that's the answer to the reason the Nagant revolver is so cheap. It's inexpensive enough that just about anyone could afford one, but it seems like it'd be more suited as a gun to show off than a gun to shoot regularly, due to the lack of available ammo.
     
  16. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,076
    Location:
    Nashville, Tn.
    I wonder about this too. Think of the K-31 rifles imported to the U.S. I've read there is plenty of ammo as surplus. I wonder if any of it will ever make it into the U.S. There is no reason to not import this ammo. This rifle just cannot be considered a real assault rifle. Just like several other rifles...their time has passed. They (we) deserve range time. Time is wasting and fun is lost! :fire:

    Mark
     
  17. Proinsias

    Proinsias Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    NV
    The Nagant shoots .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .32 H&R Magnum just fine. Not as nice as 7.62x38mmR, but well enough.
     
  18. DMK

    DMK Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,797
    Location:
    Over the hills and far, far away
    When you see a surplus gun you like, you look around for ammo. If it is expensive or not available then you skip it. If ammo is cheap, you stock up.

    If you are one of those folks who buys a box or two of ammo, just enough to last a day at the range, and you don't reload, then collecting surplus guns isn't for you. Not if you plan to shoot them for any length of time anyway.

    When the K31s were all over the place, there was a ton of GP-11 around. I was buying a case every month. Glad I did.
     
  19. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,264
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...The United Nations has in place..." The Third World Debating Club has no mandate, jurisdiction nor authority to put any legislation in place for any member country. Any ammo importation laws are those of a particular country. Has nothing to do with the UN.
    "...The UN has a well known and long history of being anti gun..." As long as the member dictatorships aren't inconvenienced.
    The Austrian M95 is a pre-war rifle. Milsurp ammo hasn't been made since W.W. II.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page