Why would civilians ever need automatic guns? Plinking comes to mind, but is there anything else besides? Home defense? Let's hear the reasons. I'm not condeming automatic weapon, just hoping to gain some more insight. Why would someone pay so much for a gun we can just as easily rent at a range? A good conversational piece? Bragging rights? Are there any practical reasons I may not be aware of ?
Why do we need automatic guns?
- Thread starter Yohan
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PATH
Member
My rights as a citizen should not be predicated by my explaining a need to exercise them. Why does anyone need to speak his mind and possibly upset others? Why do people need to practice their own religion? Why do you need a trial by jury? Don't you trust the judge? Why do we need laws against illegal search and seizure? Don't you trust the government.
"NEED" is a word used by the left to predicate their arguments against gun ownership. I don't see a need not to have automatic firearms!
By the way Yohan I am not calling you a leftist.
"NEED" is a word used by the left to predicate their arguments against gun ownership. I don't see a need not to have automatic firearms!
By the way Yohan I am not calling you a leftist.
New_comer
Member
I believe civilians don't need automatic weapons.
Automatics are offensive weapons. We'd be more prone to injure innocents when spraying one of those.
Beside, we already have something better: shotguns!
With 00 buck, the perp stands to receive nine 32 cal slug all hitting at the same time. With #4 buck, the BG would be on the receiving end of more than twenty 25 cal slugs. If that ain't firepower, then I don't know what is.
Automatics are offensive weapons. We'd be more prone to injure innocents when spraying one of those.
Beside, we already have something better: shotguns!
With 00 buck, the perp stands to receive nine 32 cal slug all hitting at the same time. With #4 buck, the BG would be on the receiving end of more than twenty 25 cal slugs. If that ain't firepower, then I don't know what is.
PATH
Member
Any weapon can be offensive. I dare say that auto weapons are fine for people to own. The only thing offensive is the government asking for a "need" before I can exercise my 2nd Amendment rights!
Oh, Yohan they are extremely fun to fire!
Oh, Yohan they are extremely fun to fire!
Hkmp5sd
Member
Other than the normal need-2nd Amendment and why 10 rnd vs 11 round magazine arguments, machineguns are FUN to shoot.
Another reason is that if there are ever any Rodney King/LA similar riots where I live, a full auto could come in very handy.
I've never understood why most people think it's perfectly normal to spend thousands of dollars on such items as old postage stamps or coins, cars that can do 150 MPH, golf clubs, 4x4 trucks, a TV so big you can sit in your front yard and still watch or bass boats, but when it gets to machineguns, it's always why and need.
Another reason is that if there are ever any Rodney King/LA similar riots where I live, a full auto could come in very handy.
I've never understood why most people think it's perfectly normal to spend thousands of dollars on such items as old postage stamps or coins, cars that can do 150 MPH, golf clubs, 4x4 trucks, a TV so big you can sit in your front yard and still watch or bass boats, but when it gets to machineguns, it's always why and need.
Why you ask? To defend against tyrrany in government of course. We should be on a level playing field with those that have the ability to oppress the people.
Imagine the outcome of the American Revolution if they were relegated to the use of the bow & arrow or spear. The Revolutionaries owned the same or in most cases better weapons than did the mighty oppressors.
Imagine the outcome of the American Revolution if they were relegated to the use of the bow & arrow or spear. The Revolutionaries owned the same or in most cases better weapons than did the mighty oppressors.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Yohan, there's something you need to keep in mind when asking about full-auto weapons. It does not cost that much for a company to make them. The prices on fully-automatic weapons have been artificially inflated due to increasingly strict regulations on them. A WWII era Sten gun probably cost under $50 to make, and that's being very generous. To buy one today, you will probably pay at least $1,500.
For those who are able to afford the cost of the weapon, ammunition, and the tax stamp, full autos offer a really fun way to turn money into noise. Plus, they rank way up there in the cool factor. (The first time you shoot a vintage Thompson is almost a religious experience.) From there, you can pretty much apply any of the standard answers to the age-old 'why do you own a gun?'
Furthermore, and more seriously, the answer (probably) depends on what you think of the second amendment and the Miller decision. If you believe that the purpose is that citizenry ought to be an effective militia, why should they be armed with anything less than what every soldier in the world carries?
Mizzoutiger
Member
That's exactly why I want my mark-19 automatic grenade launcher! Just think about the whole new "candy store" that opens up should we ever be able to own anything the government uses. Wowsers, I don't know where I would begin.
Kenneth Lew
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Guns are boring
I'm in a point in life where guns are getting pretty boring. Full autos brings at least a tiny little grin to my face. I also like to make a lot of noise at $1.28 a second.
Kenneth Lew
I'm in a point in life where guns are getting pretty boring. Full autos brings at least a tiny little grin to my face. I also like to make a lot of noise at $1.28 a second.
Kenneth Lew
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Well, a good many of us did not pay so much to have one. My Uzi for example. I have $775 in it...not counting the $200 tax stamp. $175 of that is the cost of converting it from semi-auto to selective fire. If it had been selective fire in the beginning a reasonable price would have been the same as the semi-auto...$600.
From what I see on various for sale boards, I could sell this Uzi for around $3000. OK. $600 for the basic weapon...$2400 for the government's idiotic laws restricting supply.
Consider the various kits available for various automatic weapons. These kits usually run from $200 to $700 from what I see in various ads. Consider the costs of getting them here...buying them, getting the receivers cut to BATF standards, shipping them by sea, and getting them inspected before sale. If it wasn't for the "laws" they could be sold for less because the sellers wouldn't have the costs of getting them cut up and inspection.
That FN Model D BAR that would cost you $20,000 for a transferable example would be around $600.
Thompson submachine guns that go for around $10K? There's at least one warehouse in Russia with NIB Thompsons.
As far as "need" goes... I "need" one .22 rifle for small game, one medium bore rifle for American big game...it could also double for social needs, a large bore rifle for when I get to Africa, a centerfire pistol/revolver for personal defense, a .22 pistol/revolver for plinking and practice, and a shotgun for wingshooting and clays . So six firearms could cover my "needs" handily. So why do I have at least 35 (I haven't sat down and done an actual count lately)? Because I like owning and shooting various firearms. It's what I do instead of collecting stamps, wives, cars or some such.
Need has nothing to do with it whether it's for hunting, plinking, self defense etc. after I obtained a small number of firearms. Want does.
The entire concept of "need" in relation to firearms plays into the anti's hands. It is an anti concept...as in "sporting need."
Don't play their game.
MicroBalrog
member
Actually, M-16's and Galils have been used for home defense vs. terrorists in the settlements on the Occupied territories.
WhoKnowsWho
Member
I would want one for the fun aspect. For self defense, single, aimed fire. For covering fire, I suppose auto fire would be a plus though. But I would like it for the fun.
Stack up some targets on a backstop, and open the hose of lead!!
But alas...
Stack up some targets on a backstop, and open the hose of lead!!
But alas...
MicroBalrog
member
The average gunfight is on ranges below five meters - hard to miss for a trained indiviudual.
However, full-auto weapons could be used for intimidation (warining 20-round burst from a 120-round clip for an M-16), and if necessary, a followup with 10,20,30 rounds.
However, full-auto weapons could be used for intimidation (warining 20-round burst from a 120-round clip for an M-16), and if necessary, a followup with 10,20,30 rounds.
Tamara
Senior Member
Because the Second Amendment doesn't have anything to do with duck hunting or protecting yourself from freelance criminals.
According to U.S. v. Miller, a Perazzi trap gun or a KelTec P-32 are not protected by the Second Amendment, while an M249 SAW is. (Unless there's some military use for Perazzis and KelTecs I'm unaware of...)
According to U.S. v. Miller, a Perazzi trap gun or a KelTec P-32 are not protected by the Second Amendment, while an M249 SAW is. (Unless there's some military use for Perazzis and KelTecs I'm unaware of...)
El Tejon
Member
Why do we need Christianity? Just to brag about Hayzeus? To have a day off? We have a lot of other religions.
Yohan, the purpose of the Second Amendment is not defense of home or hearth, it is not bunny shooting, or target shooting. The Second Amendment is about fighting.
As Tamara stated, the Court in Miller held that all weapons that are have a militree use are protected. That includes weapons which are fully automatic.
As to practical reasons, as wise man in Tejas sez, full auto fire is a great way to convert money into noise. Below squad level, they have limited purposes.
Yohan, the purpose of the Second Amendment is not defense of home or hearth, it is not bunny shooting, or target shooting. The Second Amendment is about fighting.
As Tamara stated, the Court in Miller held that all weapons that are have a militree use are protected. That includes weapons which are fully automatic.
As to practical reasons, as wise man in Tejas sez, full auto fire is a great way to convert money into noise. Below squad level, they have limited purposes.
MicroBalrog
member
What about house-clearing/home defense?
El Tejon
Member
Micro, sure, you can do it with a machine pistol, but the more you shoot the more trouble you can get into. Inside my house I prefer a shotgun and pistol combo. YMMV.
Software is to hardware as 10 is to 1.
Software is to hardware as 10 is to 1.
MicroBalrog
member
Well, given that I live in the Israeli Socialist Workers' Paradise, I choose pepper spray for house-clearing.
The Israeli army doesn't use shotguns at all afaik, moving to short-barreled assault rifles and SMG for house-clearing.
The Israeli army doesn't use shotguns at all afaik, moving to short-barreled assault rifles and SMG for house-clearing.
El Tejon
Member
Run what ya brung.
MeekandMild
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Yohan, why do you need an automatic transmission in your car? It would seem to me the old three speed manual would do just fine, or better yet, just a bicycle would be OK.
TallPine
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Because some people just never caught on to using a clutch
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