Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why do you like (dislike) Mosin Nagants?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by jagdpanzer347, Feb 16, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jagdpanzer347

    jagdpanzer347 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    744
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Recently acquired my first two, a Russian M91/30 laminate and Russian M44. Unfortantely I haven't had a chance to fire them yet,or any Nagant for that matter.
    I do like the fact that combined they set me back only slightly more than 200.00. And ammo is super cheap. The actions don't seem nearly as smooth as a Mauser or Enfield, but I guess that is the nature of the beast.
    There also seems to be a large number of variations that would keep a collector busy for a while. The Finnish variations look particularly interesting.
    What are your thoughts?
    -jagdpanzer.
     
  2. foghornl

    foghornl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,403
    I have 1 Mosin-Nagant, a Romainian (IIRC) 1954 M-44. It is a simple, rugged design that works well. Only a few tricks about these rifles...

    Make sure you have the rims staggered so that you don't get 'rim-lock', i.e. next cartridge loaded into the mag goes slightly in front on the one already in place...whether single-loading or from a stripper clip.

    Safety is a real "bear" to work..knob has to be pulled back and rotated counter-clockwise about 1/8th of a turn to "safe", rotate cw for 'fire'

    Some models are bayonet position sensitive. MY M-44 has about a 3"-4" windage shift with bayo folded vs. extened. This can also be ammo sensitive as well...some ammo is not affected as much by the bayo position. If I use the 200_gr Barnaul soft-point 'hunting ammo', windage shift is more like 2"@100Yds.

    Those rifles were probably fairly well 'advanced technology' when they first came out around 1890 or so.

    The carbines (like the M-44) can be a real [ahem..bad pun warning] "Blast" to shoot with certain ammo. A HUGE fireball, and lotza noise. I actually made a guy shooting a .300Win Mag in the next lane pack up and leave once...complained about my gun being "WAY TOO *&^*(*^&^ LOUD!"
     
  3. Firehand

    Firehand Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Dislike:
    Stiff action, especially with steel-case ammo
    Often lousy triggers
    Difficult safety

    Like:
    Break about as often as a rock
    Find the right ammo, can be surprisingly accurate
    As you say, cheap ammo.

    I recently got a Pu sniper, and was happily surprised; it gets 1" groups with the Czech silvertip ammo, and the optics are sharp and clear.
     
  4. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    Mosin M-38 Carbines are the closest some furriners' army ever got to a lever gun. They just feel right. Commie bastards then added a bayonet and screwed that all up.
     
  5. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,655
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    I can't get into the whole Mosin thing; I'd rather save my pennies and have Enfields..... :D
     
  6. ocabj

    ocabj Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,383
    Location:
    Riverside, CA
    You'll change your mind when you handle a Finnish M39.
     
  7. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    9,155
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Of all the surplus chamberings (8mm, 303, 6.5, 7.5, etc.), 7.62x54 is the only one that is likely to remain available cheaply in the long run.
     
  8. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    4,744
    I think mine is an M44. It is just inaccurate. That is my only complaint. Well, that and I wasted money learning my lessons about surplus guns (not much money thankfully). I got a scope mount added and the bolt handle rewelded. Since the rifle is inaccurate, it seems like a waste.

    I have a tin of ammo left so I won't abandon them completely, but I don't shoot mine much. It is no fun shooting an inaccurate gun. I may look at a Finish rifle sooner or later just to see if I can get some better accuracy. I may also pick up a cheap "trunk gun" candidate. I would just as soon ditch the two rifles I have now. Oleg is right though. The ammo will probably be cheap for some time to come and the rifles will be cheap as well. That is why I may look that direction again sooner or later.
     
  9. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,655
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    Donations cheerfully accepted. :D
     
  10. White Horseradish

    White Horseradish Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Mechanically elegant, simple, bombproof. Cheap ammo, widely available - it's still in military service in several countries and actively used for hunting in the former USSR. What's not to like?

    Condition varies widely between individual rifles. Some are stiff, some are smooth, some shoot groups, some shoot patterns. Most complaints about feeding, action and triggers can be traced to wear/corrosion or just dirt. Rimlock and feed jams are usually caused by a worn/damaged/dirty ejector-interruptor and a weakened interruptor spring. These old gals have had hard lives. People get squeaky joints, rifles get gritty triggers and sticky bolts. Rifle ailments are a bit easier to fix, though...

    That said, I have a Type 53 carbine that I was afraid to take to the range until I replaced the sear. The trigger pull was so light, it would go off with a hard sneeze. :)
     
  11. White Horseradish

    White Horseradish Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Minnesota
    There's a reason why there never was a factory scope mount for the M44... :neener:
     
  12. itgoesboom

    itgoesboom member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,675
    Location:
    By the River
    I would love to pick up one again.

    I bought one a few years back, when I was 18. It was my second rifle, and I had horrible problems with it.

    Mainly the problem I had was that I couldn't work the action on the rifle after firing. I actually had to use all my strength and weight and smack the bolt agains the shooting bench to get it to work. :what:

    I fired about 20 rounds through it, and gave up, and brought it back to where I bought it and traded it for something else.

    If THR or TFL were around back then, I am sure that I could have gotten the needed info to fix it, but I didn't have anyone to help me with it back then.

    I.G.B.
     
  13. skers69

    skers69 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Location:
    Kansas City
    I aquired a M44 for 80 bucks. I did not like the accuracy. I went to Cabelas to get a scope for it. The guy took one look at it and told me it was worth 500 bucks. I guess I got a hold of one that is collectable. Anyway....I did not put a scope on it. I love to shoot it...makes a bunch of noise....and kicks like a mule. I do not like the safety. Other that that I think they are pretty neat guns.
     
  14. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Finns really are a class apart. They're custom crafted rifles made by some of the finest gunmakers in the world. They're also highly collectable. Even the most common Finnish Mosins-the M-91 remakes and the M-39's, were produced in numbers VASTLY smaller than the Imperial and Soviet Mosins. It's safe to say all Finnish Mosins are highly collectible. The top value ones now are the winter war rifles (M-27's, M-28's, M-28/30's) and rare variants such as Tikka-made M-39's. But in time I can pretty much guarantee any Finn you don't hack up will be worth more in the years to come.

    Consider the fact that over 17 MILLION 91/30's came out of the Soviet arsenals. Almost 200,000 of them were made into sniper variants. Contrast that with under 10,000 M-27's and under 140,000 M-39's.

    There are a TON of bogus and mismarked Mosin-Nagants out there, and a great deal of misinformation about which ones are valuable and which are not. Be very careful about buying "sniper" variants, as most of them are bogus aftermarket remakes. The one sure thing I can say is that if you get a Mosin for under two bills with a Finnish barrel and on it, you've done good in the long run. ANd it's still shockingly easy to find these.

    A lot of the problem Mosins people are running into are 91/30 or M-38 parts guns that were put together by the importers. The bolt heads have never really been fitted and they stick badly. The only way I buy a Soviet Mosin is if I can see it in the flesh. The bolt should be loose in the hand and flow very smoothly. It should *NOT* feel tight like a Mauser bolt. The crown should be clear and the overall condition good. Matching numbers are ideal.
     
  15. Niner

    Niner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Alabama
    A Mosin Nagant M91 got me hooked on C&R guns. I picked it up at a gun show a dozen years ago. I was walking by a table and noticed it as being an odd looking rifle. I looked at the receiver and it was engraved with New England Westinghouse, although the dealer was telling me it was a Russian rifle. I brought it home for $70 along with a bag full of 7.62x54r thrown in for free. I got to examining it and did some research. I discoved it had been in Finland at some juncture because of the SA mark, and the stock was original because it had the English contract mark, in Russian, on the butt stock.

    It was a lot of history in that one firearm. This rifle had been made in America for Nicholas II during WWI with England acting as Russia's agent. It had made it to Russian in time for the revolution. It had stayed in service for at least the first war with Finland, been captured, and maybe recaptured back again. Now it had made full circle back to the US! And.... it was still in shooting condition. :) If only it could speak about where it had been.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  16. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    Cosmoline-

    Is it a problem if the bolt lifts up in the action when it is locked shut and you push down on the bolt handle? Is this normal, or an ill-fitting bolt?
     
  17. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    It's normal to have some play in the bolt even when locked, if that's what your asking. To prevent a the bolt from popping out of action, you can engage the safety which will freeze it in place.
     
  18. atblis

    atblis Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,531
    Location:
    Neither here nor there
    The Ammo is cheap

    Otherwise I could care less about them.

    Most other people are probably about the same. Swedish Mausers are worth the cost of the ammo. If Nagant ammo was $7.00 a box, not very many people would be shooting them.
     
  19. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    :rolleyes: I spend that much on modern Russian production all the time. So do many others. I also know more than a few Finns that can go toe-to-toe with any Swede. Or are you suggesting that Tikka and Sako aren't quality gun makers?
     
  20. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    16,710
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    Play in the bolt is not all that bad, as long as it is minimal - the separate bolt head is locked in place.
    My M38 will group 6 inches at 100 yards with Silvertip, 3 inches with Wolf, and we'll see what it does with the Polish stuff I just ordered. My handloads have certainly not been as good as I liked, 2.5 inches at 100 yards was the best I could do.
    One HUGE peice of advice - if you are NOT a rifle recoil fan, i.e., dream of firing the .577 Tyrannasaurus Rex cartridge, then get thee to WalMart, and get a $7 slip on recoil pad...
    Then take a cordless drill to the range with you. Chuck a cleaning rod with a 20 ga shotgun bronze brush, and after you fire the first couple of rounds, and get REAL sick of smacking the bolt handle to unlock, dismount the bolt, and shove the drill in the chamber with some brake cleaner or gum out, and drill that sucker with the shotgun brush to get rid of the tiny bits of cosmo left in the pits. That melts, and binds with the laquer on the steel cases. Do this a few times, clean and re lube lightly, and you should be golden forever.
    Do not forget the surplus stuff is corrosive primed - use a swab or two of ammonia, like Windex with ammonia, to nuetralize the corrosive "salts" in the berdan primers. Then clean as normal. Do that on the barrel and the bolt face.
    Then have fun! Great blasters!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  21. Ad Astra

    Ad Astra Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    Sinus Medii
    Mosin-Nagants are highly addictive. The M38 is a handy size "just in case you need a rifle" rifle... The Queen is the M39. Handle one and see. AIM has had some great ones, even sneaks and other unique collectables (Tikkas). Also gunsnammo in new york has had some beauts...

    I like my target M39 so much I agonized over getting it the $300 rare bayo... (now they're GONE) in the end, I got another M39 shooter, replica bayo (coming) and had money left over.

    I've heard many times that M44's shoot to one side w/o the bayo extended. Guess I'm lucky for once; got one of the hard-chrome ones Classic had (love it) and it shot to point of aim- 2" group at 25 yds., good enough for what it is.

    Now the M38- who mentioned it above was right- had a headspace problem on the GO side. Bolt would NOT close on some ammo. Got a new bolthead w/extractor from TGP and voila, cycles fine and won't close on a NO-GO. But check them all! Borrow a NO-GO gauge if you don't have one.

    Recoil... K31 is sweet, shoot it all day. M48A in 8mm was soft too w/factory loads. Brown Bear in the Mosins was a little more, yes. But I shot 80 rounds and went home and put up a ceiling fan, so how bad could that be? Couldn't see the flash in bright daylight, either. The only disappointment.

    Getting a case of the Polish 7.62x54r delivered for 45, so... 10 cents a round.

    Mosin-Nagants are ugly, cheap, clunky and wonderful.
     
  22. atblis

    atblis Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,531
    Location:
    Neither here nor there
    I've got a Tikka Nagant.

    It's okay. Minute of boulder accurate (better than that really). The Sakos and Tikkas are a special case of the Nagant. In general the Russian ones are kind of blah.

    I like them, and think they'll be quite collectable eventually (the odd ones).

    I did see a test a few years ago where they compared a Mauser and a Nagant (I know one of each isn't really conclusive). The Nagant was actually more accurate.
     
  23. dm1333

    dm1333 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Messages:
    971
    I took my M38 to the range the other day. It shot well with 147 grain loads (less blast and recoil) and it has a nice balance and feel to it. Shooting off an improvised rest at 60 or so yards I had about 2 inch groups and I was able to bust rocks and cans at close to 100 yards. Not bad considering the rifle cost 69$ the scope mount was 58$ and the scope was 29$.
     
  24. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    It takes a special breed to really get into them. They're a contrarian rifle firing a contrarian cartridge. By all rights they should have died out with WWI like nearly every similar split bridge receiver/rimmed cartridge early smokeless powder design. Conventional wisdom favored the Mauser '98 pattern over a century ago. But the Mosin and the 54R stubbornly refuse to cease circulating or cease working.

    I think the Soviet rifles get a bad rap due to the WWII vitage parts guns with barrels rebored so many times they've expanded to near 8mm dimensions. The pre-war Soviet rifles and Imperial M-91's are very good rifles, and can be quite accurate with the right loads.
     
  25. mrrev

    mrrev Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    69
    Best tunk gun there is. You could actually throw it back there and the dent or scratch it gets will only add more character to it. Plus cheap ammo, can one get cheaper ammo other than .22? It may not be that accurate, but I'll bet I'll hit something at 100 yards....
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page