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Why don't military sniper rifles have silencers?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by nachosgrande, Mar 1, 2009.

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  1. nachosgrande

    nachosgrande Member

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    Would think that could help their cause in the stealth department.
     
  2. Karl Hungus

    Karl Hungus Member

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    They do.
     
  3. lipadj46

    lipadj46 Member

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    Who says they don't? I know M14 Crazyhorse Rifles by SEI come with a quick detachable silencer.
     
  4. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Some of them do, depending on the specific mission. However, most such shots are taken from long enough range that sound is not the primary locator. The usual locator is someone who saw the flash, which is why flash hiders are more commonly used.
     
  5. Javelin

    Javelin Member

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    AAC has the contract as they were one of the very few that passed the militarys stingent testing and are the only to offer completely sealed, fully inconel, fully-auto rated 5.56 suppressor. They also offer the 762SD for .308 through .300WINMAG.

    Here is the link if your in a unit and need the NSN to order them or just want to look b/c you are thinkin of a good rifle suppressor. If buying a pistol suppressor (which the military does not do) I would recommend SWR.

    http://www.advancedarmament.com/

    :)
     
  6. nachosgrande

    nachosgrande Member

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    OK, my fault. Just surprised I've never seen one in movies or tv. In fact, I've never even seen a threaded barrel for any rifle other than a Ruger 10/22.
     
  7. dscottw88

    dscottw88 Member

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    I believe the SR-25 comes with a suppresor.
     
  8. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    They have learned to fire from inside a interior room behind a peice of wood with a hole larger than the muzzle/scope. Near the window or mousehole of the building is a bigger hole.

    The intended target of the sniper never sees the flash of the gun firing.

    It is effective enough that our enemies have adopted this tatic for themselves.

    Now as I understand it from recent books on the war going on, we have Platoon Marksmen who are designed to snipe with about.. 200 yards? and target specific high priority threats such as the enemy machine gunner while the platoon dealt with those around the machinegun in the tree line for example. I believe they carry Carbines with special scopes for this work.

    That is the extent of my understanding of snipers today. Dont try to ask me other things I dont know about them. I love Snipers because they save lives. But refuse to get really deep into talking about things I know little to nothing about.

    Cheers.
     
  9. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    this may sound a bit strange, but silencers dont do a whole lot for dampening the sound of a high powered rifle, in fact, it more requires sub-sonic ammunition in addition to a silencer to achieve the wanted affect... I dont know about you, but personally, if I am in a combat situation, I am going to opt for the more lethal ammunition over the less than effective silencer...
     
  10. Javelin

    Javelin Member

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    Not everyone knows this. The regular army was not began widely issued suppressors until 2005 and even then it was experimental. My unit was issued KAC suppressors during the early portion of our second tour in Iraq. It was on a trial basis as the US Army had not fought an large scale urban conflict with the M16 until 2003!

    We were caught off-guard and all of our equipment such as NVGs and the way we thought about combat was drastically changed. Night Ops were no longer recon patrol missions, they were instead raids and urban combat maneuvers. We had to go to Taclights as NVGs were worthless. Our M240s were essentially too powerful for urban combat and the M249s needed to become shorter to handle hallways. We also had an issue with noise. All the buildings are made of concrete, mud, and plaster. Shoot a few times inside a small enclosed concrete room at 3am and your going to have issues. We received the test pilot program suppressors and after that AAC finally was awarded the contract in 2008.

    The technology available to civilians due to AAC allowing their military grade stuff be sold at open market is a serious benefit to everyone. Not sure how long it will be available as they are now limiting some of their suppressors in the near future to military only orders (as they make them in batch quantities). Their automated machining cost mega-bucks and the ability to offer fully sealed inconel suppressors is a first ever. Don't take this crap lightly as if you are even entertaining the idea of getting one now is the time.

    :)

    Though they do not eliminate the sound they take the decibels from 160+ down to ~130 range with full power 7.62 ammo. It is true there are awful suppressors on the market. This is why when you are ready to buy one you go see them for yourself at a silencer shoot. The AAC M4-2000 is #1 rated as well as the SPR/M4 in 5.56. The AAC Cyclone is also the #1 rated 7.62/.308 suppressor in the 2008 silencer shoot out as well. I opt for the 762SD as it is the same design just shorter with a quick detatch. Just do your homework.
     
  11. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Actually, the purpose of a suppressor (not silencer) on a sniper rifle is to defeat the crack-thump location method.

    When you are under fire, you hear the crack-crack-crack of bullets passing. The crack appears to come from the closest point of approach of the bullet. And that confuses untrained troops.

    So we train troops to be alerted by the crack and to listen for the muzzle blast -- which is a dull thump or pop, and which follows the crack by a noticeable time lag.

    With the suppressor, you suppress the thump, but not the crack. But that's okay -- with only the crack, the guy on the receiving end can't locate you by sound.
     
  12. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    thanks for the info Javelin, and Vern.. very good to know..
     
  13. Javelin

    Javelin Member

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    Good point. I have found that you cannot tell (not even animals can tell) where the bullet is coming from if your not directly behind the shooter. That sonic blast from the bullet is moving with the bullet and our ears cannot detect direction of a noise that is traveling from a supersonic source (ie the bullet). It actually appears to the observor be 90 to even 180 degrees offset from where it originated with the shooter. It is really kind of crazy. Also the noise from your high power rifle does not ring out from the host firearm and really after about 50 yards is indistinguishable and will not bother neighbors near by.

    I just wish that people would stop being cheap and buy a really bad can just to go 'show off' and it ultimately sucks and those watching see that and think wow how stupid was that to buy. And the dude who bought it is now stuck with a suppressor that does not work very well as no one else is going to buy it. LOL
     
  14. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    I am not a soldier, but I know that the muzzle blast of a high powered rifle can be greatly reduced by a good silencer. It can make an ar-15 safe to shoot without hearing protection. When I shoot my 308 or 223 suppressed, it is much more comfortable than without a silencer.

    Ranb
     
  15. 61chalk

    61chalk Member

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    "...I've never seen them (silencer) use in movies..."
    Watch "Clear an Present Danger."
    I think the sniper liked his.
     
  16. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    That's baloney. Have you ever shot one or did you read that on the internet?

    I've shot this one, and I would consider the difference to be "a whole lot", even with supersonic ammunition.
     
  17. Javelin

    Javelin Member

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    Awh yes one of SilencerTalks own. ;)
     
  18. USSR

    USSR Member

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    To someone on the receiving end of long range fire, there is a crack about like a short barreled .22 rifle (which is the bullet breaking the sound barrier as it passes by you - or hits you), followed about 1.5 seconds later by a low, rolling boom (like thunder at a great distance). Though you know you are being shot at, it's really hard to locate where it's coming from. Have had thousands of rounds pass just 3 feet over my head. At the distances typically shot by military snipers, wind is their primary concern, not the sound of their rifle.

    Don
     
  19. jackdanson

    jackdanson Member

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    Yeah, +1 on that.

    Wouldn't you need subsonic ammunition for it to be effective? I'd think that it would mess with the ballistics too much.. maybe on a DMR, but not a sniper rifle/m40.
     
  20. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    If the muzzle blast of a high powered rifle is reduced by 20 decibels or a factor of 100, why is this not a "whole lot"?

    While the smaller powder charge of some subsonic rounds, such as the ten grains in a 300 whisper verses the 45 grain charge of a 308 leads to much lower noise levels, just the fact that noise is lowered by 20 decibels makes a very big diffence.

    Try shooting two ar-15's side by side, one suppressed and one not. Then tell me how effective the silencer is. I have done this with Walther P-22's and ar-15's. The reduction in noise is very dramatic.

    While the point of impact can change lots with the silencer on, it is just a matter of adjusting your sights/scope. No big deal unless you keep on switching back and forth

    Ranb
     
  21. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    I wonder what a Silencer will look like on a 120mm Mortor or a 155mm?

    The noise laws get restrictive by the year you know :neener:
     
  22. Ohio Gun Guy

    Ohio Gun Guy Member

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    It has been a while but I believe decibels are measured in a factor of 10. So a seemingly small change numerically (ie 20db) may be a large audible change. It is the result of a fun formula, and I believe "log" (Most seldom button on your calculator) button is invoked in the process, kind of like the Fugita scale for tornados (F1, F2, etc.)

    Again, It has been a while since college so someone correct me if I am wrong.:rolleyes:
     
  23. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    3 decibels equals 2 times change, 10 decibels 100 times, 20 decibels 100 times, ect.

    Ranb
     
  24. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret member

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    I spent a day or two in combat and never remember seeing a silencer used by our snipers. But, what difference does it make, most sniper targets are taken at long range.
     
  25. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    It might protect their hearing. :)

    Ranb
     
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