Why don't we see more 8 shot 357 snubs?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by KarateHottie93, Jan 16, 2022.

  1. KarateHottie93

    KarateHottie93 Member

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    From talking to my FFL's and searching around online, it seems you can't really keep any of them in stock. S&W has the 327 PC, 627 PC, and had the old 327 Night Guard. The only place you can ever find any of them is GunBroker and they tend to sell well above MSRP. That's kinda understandable with the Night Guard. It's not easy to come by now. The 627 PC snub is no longer on their website. It's not in the Archives section either though so I don't know what's going on with it.

    The Ruger 5051 rarely shows up on GunBroker so I don't know what people are paying for them. I'd imagine the final price is typically above the already high MSRP though.

    Also, if you ever find a 627 3in V Comp...it's gonna be insanely expensive. That's obviously to be expected with any V Comp though so I can't really count it.

    I don't get why these are so hard to come by in general though. They're all highly sought after and universally loved by those who own them. Why not produce more? Why doesn't Colt and Taurus jump on the wagon? Especially Colt. I need an 8 shot 357 Pony snub. I also need 30 Super Carry to blow up so the popularity can carry over to 327 magnum. Just imagine a 327 PC in...327 magnum. 9 shots at least.

    Quick edit. The 327 PC is smaller than a Glock 19 and weighs the same as a G2c. They're not as huge as everyone makes them out to be. They're probably lighter than steel framed J frames. Even at that weight, the N frame soaks up that 357 like a champ. I know my TRR8 feels super light with that same Scandium frame and it has a 5.5in bbl.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
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  2. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    This statement contradicts this statement.

    They may be highly sought after and loved, but by a rather small segment of shooters. And most of them already own one. There isn't a huge incentive for manufacturers to make a bunch of them. By keeping supply less than demand they can sell them at a premium for max profit.

    A 6 shot K frame Smith is about as big as I want a revolver with a sub-4" barrel. Anything holding 7 or 8 rounds of 357 is going to be a huge, and expensive revolver. And when you get to 3" or less barrel many 9mm loads will be more potent. I just don't think there is as much demand as you think there is.

    There are some guns that I'd buy in a heartbeat if they were manufactured, but I understand that me and about a dozen other guys are the only ones interested.
     
  3. ericuda

    ericuda Member

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    Size, weight and ballistics. A snub 2" barrel is made for convenice and the bigger it is the less convenient it is.
     
  4. Obturation

    Obturation Member

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    I can only tell you why I wouldn't want one, can't speculate on why there aren't more available .
    If I have a big cylinder , I prefer larger bullets. 6 shot 44 mag is more useful than an 8 shot 357. I'm sure you could get an 8 shot redhawk if you ordered it at your local gun shop, you would just have to wait a while to get it. Not sure how it works with s&w , never ordered one.
     
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  5. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    Nobody wants a revolver that is wider than it is long.

    The short barrel might make concealing easier, but the fat cylinder makes them about as easy to conceal as a tennis ball for most people.
     
  6. fxvr5

    fxvr5 member

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    It's still on the website, if you mean the 2.625";

    https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/model-627?sku=170133
     
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  7. mcb

    mcb Member

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    An N-frame and a Ruger (Super) Redhawk is a big revolver. Just because you put a short barrel on it, it is still a big revolver. Try tucking and N-frame in your pocket or IWB holster (pants that would allow that would fall off my butt when I removed the handgun and holster), most find it uncomfortable and too heavy (especially for the pocket). I love N-frames including my 627 PC but I want a revolver that big to have a usable barrel length, for sight radius, velocity, and recoil mitigation.

    IMHO A snub nose revolver needs to be small and light enough to go into a front pants pocket or vest pocket. For me that is a 442 in 38 Special. By the time you're small and light enough for a pocket revolver, chambering it in 357 Magnum just make for a mean little revolver. Having played with 357 Magnum snub nose revolvers before buying my 442 I quickly came to the realization that 38 Special in plenty for a light weight snub nose. Buy the time its heavy enough to tame 357 Magnum I will be carrying a high capacity semi-auto.

    If I had a dollar for every time I have read on the internet that someone bought a light weight 357 Magnum snub nose and because of recoil and noise only ever shoots 38 Special in it; I could buy a S&W 340 PD and throw the mean little revolver in a river and not feel bad for the lost.

    -rambling as usual
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  8. Stumper

    Stumper Member

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    Some people have them. Some people want them. Most don't. Things are reasonably balanced.
     
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  9. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    I’m fairly sure Taurus did jump. Seems like a 608 I think (memory stinks right now, work has me running crazy) but the shortest I remember seeing is a 4”. Seems like a 2 or 3 inch was available at some point.

    On the topic of why not, why no more ribbed 357s? The 2 I have had my fun with were greatly improved sight pictures than a standard revolver… which circles right back to the Taurus I’m thinking of which the rib was optional.
     
  10. Jonesy814

    Jonesy814 Member

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    Most folks think of a snubby as a compact lightweight revolver. I do like the looks of the PC627 linked to above, but at over 40 ounces loaded you're talking 1911 weight
     
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  11. Pat Riot
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    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    I have an S&W 327 Night Guard.
    I love that gun and would never sell it.
    I bought it to carry in the woods when hunting or hiking and also for when I go fishing.
    It definitely isn’t a concealed carry gun for me. I always carry it OWB. I never bothered trying IWB.
    I will say that the grip and the weight of it make shooting magnum loads easy.
     
  12. KarateHottie93

    KarateHottie93 Member

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    Yeah but if you get the Scandium 327, it's pretty light. Also no bigger than a Glock 19.

    They're also not that wide. I don't have a snubby one but I have the TRR8. Cylinder width is not an issue whatsoever. I really don't see why anyone would have trouble concealing one.

    And the steel frame ones may be 1911 weight but that's with the same capacity, more power, and more reliability.
     
  13. fxvr5

    fxvr5 member

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    Not if you use an alloy frame 1911, and while you're at it, use the same/similar caliber 1911 in 9X23 Winchester and you get 10+1 rounds and the 9X23 can match a 4" 357 Magnum ballistics with a 125 grain bullet (@1450 fps). So, with a 9X23 (or 38 Super if you handload for it) 1911 alloy frame you have more capacity and more power than a snubby 357. Revolvers can malfunction, too, so reliability is not much of an issue.
     
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  14. KarateHottie93

    KarateHottie93 Member

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    How did I contradict myself? They're universally loved by those who've owned them. Even semi auto guys that have reviewed them fall in love. They're extremely highly sought after. Just look on GunBroker at people paying wayyy above the $1400 MSRP for the Pug.

    They're not THAT big. My TRR8 fits in my waistband just fine and I'm the typical 6ft 200lb male. The only things keeping me from carrying it concealed are the 5.5in bbl and lack of IWB holster availability. We live in a world where a lot of first time gun owners are concealing compact semi autos with RMR's.

    I definitely get your post. I mean it makes sense and honestly, you're auch more informative poster than I'll ever be. I think the demand far out ways the production though...especially on lighter Scandium frame models like the pug.

    It weighs less than my Colt Cobra, my CZ RAMI, my Kahr T9, and my RIA M206. It weights the exact same as my Taurus G2c.

    I've been trying to come across a pug forever. Both my main FFL's have told me about how they tend to fly off the shelves the day they go in the case.
     
  15. Jonesy814

    Jonesy814 Member

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    I don't really disagree, but I said most folks think of a snubby as a compact, lightweight revolver. A few think an 8 shot N frame with a 2.65" barrel qualifies, so they make a lot of J frame snubs and a few N frame snubs. It also helps them maximize profits on those N frame snubs
     
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  16. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    It’s no bigger than a Glock 19 but has half the capacity, is still less concealable because of the cylinder width, and is wildly more expensive to buy, shoot, and repair if need be.

    I will admit, the 327 PC is a grail gun of mine…..but not to carry. I have a Glock 19 for that….or a much more concealable J frame. I just like the look of it and as an 8 shot snobby, it is definitely interesting.
     
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  17. Pat Riot
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    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    OP, I recommend you research holster options for the various models that you are interested in. There aren't many options.

    Also, sure, a G19 holds more rounds but I will take 8 rounds of .357 Magnum over 16 rounds of 9mm any day.
     
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  18. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    There is not a large enough market to tool up for production.
     
  19. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    You can keep all the 357 snubs. I'm not shooting them.
     
  20. KarateHottie93

    KarateHottie93 Member

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    Lol I'd imagine they're all pretty soft shooting due to the N frame. I mean my TRR8 has a 5.5 in bbl as mentioned, but it weighs a good bit less than any of the steel frame 8 shot snubs, due to the Scandium frame. Unless you're running really hot loads, you can't tell a difference between 357 and 38. Maybe you can on the pug. It's the only one that's lighter than my TRR8, but also has a much shorter barrel and a titanium cylinder.

    All the reviewers seem to find it pretty soft shooting though. Especially if you swap out those wood grips for rubber ones.
     
  21. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    I’m sort of torn on .357 snubs. I have two K-frames with 3” and 2.5” barrels that I’ll occasionally shoot primarily with standard pressure or +P .38’s because, to be honest, full power magnum loads aren’t much fun on the hands or the (muffed) ears. They are concealable and packable without too much effort, I toted the 2.5” Model 19 for years in a Bianchi shoulder rig, but the limited capacity and tendency to really buck with magnum loads is a turnoff. For the same +P oomph I’d rather tote the 6-shot newer model Colt Cobra over the M-19.

    An N frame .357 snub? I don’t know if the extra couple of shots cancels out the added size-weight of the gun for ccw purposes. Plus, if it’s super light then you’re still dealing with Ol’ Sir Isaac and his law of “light guns kick a lot”, even with the larger N frame grip… which kind of cancels out the ccw concealment ease of a smaller sized K-J frame and grip.

    I also don’t shoot any of my snubs as well as 4” guns, but honestly at ccw distances this may not matter too much.

    I get the draw, a Lew Horton 624 is another grail gun for me that costs a house payment now, but I also see the corresponding drawbacks of a large magnum snub revolver (including price :what:) that keep them from exploding in popularity.

    Stay safe. :)
     
  22. westernrover

    westernrover Member

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    I personally buy S&W Performance Center and other revolvers similar to the subject ones. First, I recognize that an 8-shot scandium N-frame is a $1000-class handgun. Maybe it's a little less, maybe a little more, but it's definitely not a sub $500 gun like the j-frames and most plastic autoloaders that easily lead sales. Even without the v-comp details, an N-frame is a manual-labor and machine-time intensive product and potential market size for revolvers doesn't justify the big capital investment for radical innovation in production methods that might change that.

    If we keep the 8-shot snub in the context of the small niche of kilodollar revolvers, we could ask why they're not more popular than different configurations like 6-shot 44's, 8-shot 9mm, longer-barreled L and N frames, or even 6-shot K frames. The reasons I have from my personal experience:

    * the Scandium guns are not durable
    * short barrels suck in every possible way -- absolutely worst feature of any gun, hands down
    * long barrels have great advantages in everything and no disadvantages whatsoever, not even with regard to concealment

    If I'm going to spend $1500 to $2000 on a revolver, which is what it costs me for the purchase and additional costs for action work and a sight and tax, I will not buy an aluminum alloy gun or one with a short barrel.
     
  23. redcon1

    redcon1 Member

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    I have one too and I love it and I would also never part with it. I bought it because the two Lew Horton 27-8s for sale on Gun Broker were about $3,000 a piece. I think I paid close to $1,400 for the Nightguard at gander mountain about 10 years ago. I have carried it but I don't often anymore. Shooting it isn't terribly unpleasant, unlike my 340 PD. I switched the grips out with my 629 because it needed the rubber grips more than the 327. I often think I want another one, a 627 V comp with a 6" barrel but I don't like the barrel lug on them or the price so I never do although I may some day.

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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  24. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    When I was on the hunt for an S&W N-frame 44 Special, I first stumbled on a 3" Lew Horton 624. Gosh, it is a BIG revolver and it kicks like a mule with 44 Special ammunition. Later I found a 4" 624. It is easier to shoot and about as easy to conceal as the 3" version.

    For a snub nose revolver, I'd want one that fits in the front pocket like a J-frame. I like my 442 that has been machined for moon clips.
     
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  25. Pat Riot
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    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    Wow! Those grips look great on that 327 NG.
    I bought mine in 2012. I hate to tell you that I got mine for $920, but when I went to pick it up I got a sob story from the manager about the price. I smiled and thanked him and took my gun home. That particular store tried to shaft me on another deal so I didn’t feel bad .

    I thought about changing out the factory Pachmayrs but my wife actually likes shooting this gun as it is. It’s actually the only one she likes to shoot. So I will leave it as is. It’s one of our bedroom guns. She shoots it very well and that makes me happy that she’s comfortable with it.
     
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