Why have revolvers become passé ?

[ljnowell]

Well I don't own any HKs either. I started off with revolvers. First handgun I bought was a S&W 66. I don't own any any more. Were those guys shooting those great groups shooting single action or double action? I'm guessing they were taking the time to cock the hammer every shot. Which is what most people at the range seem to do. Which is not what is going to happen on the street. So what you really need to do when practicing with a revolver is practice double action and single action. Most people don't do this. Most people want to shoot tight groups so they cock the hammer between shots so they can feel good about how well they are shooting. I'd rather have a consistent trigger that I can shoot.

It's called practice. I shoot bullseye comp with a double action revolver. That requires two sets if 5 shots to be fired in 10 seconds. That's at 25 yards, much farther than people practice for self defense. I carry a j frame often(I also carry a 1911 and a Glock sometimes too ) and am quite proficient with it, it just takes practice.

The point of this thread isn't only self defense though. The point was why are they losing popularity. Self defense is only one use of a firearm. It's also the least likely application for most gun owners, as far as actually using the gun.

 

[TestPilot]

Modern autos, many of which have horrible triggers, are easier to hit a target with than a smith revolver that gas an exquisite single action trigger? You really believe that? Most guys I see shooting modern plastic semi autos don't come close to the groups I see guys shooting with quality revolvers.

If I already did not made it clear enough, I am talking about gun fighting effectiveness.

For a revolver, that means DA mode, so how exquisite your SA trigger is would be a moot point.

I can hit far better at speed achieving combat accuracy with my 6.5 lb M&P trigger tham a 10+ lb revolver trigger in DA mode.

That is with stock trigger. There are more striker trigger that are either lighter or smoother available than that, and even the stock trigger can be significantly smoothened with a modification that can be done with minimal skill and moderate cost.

Grupp size? I can make head shots at 35 yards with my M&P 40. I have plenty of accuracy.

Sure, not all self-loaders have great triggers, but let's not pretend that all revolver triggers are "exquisite."

 

[ljnowell]

I think this might need more clarification. You can run a revolver for a long time without a lot of maintenance. But it will need cleaning, just like an auto will. (I usually clean ever 500-750 rds, regardless of which I'm shooting.)

But a more interesting facet of the discussion might be total life span or mean time between overhauls.

Some Glocks have well over 100,000 rounds through them and still work fine. Needed a few springs along the way and maybe another small part or two, but the frame, slide, barrel, etc., are still going strong.

Some revolvers will get to 20,000 rds without needing to be seriously re-worked, but some won't. End-shake, peened bolts and notches, worn hands or teeth, etc will start to make them dangerous to shoot after a while. And there's really only so many times some of those repairs can be done. (Though, like autos, just how far you can push it is a huge question mark.)

Different animals altogether.

I shoot 10+ thousand rounds out of my bullseye gun per season. If I shoot winter league add another 5k to that. The only thing I have replaced on the last three seasons(near 50k rounds) is the rebound slide spring bit wasn't replaced for failure, it was replaced to go to one weight heavier.

 

[ljnowell]

If I already did not made it clear enough, I am talking about gun fighting effectiveness.

For a revolver, that means DA mode, so how exquisite your SA trigger is would be a moot point.

I can hit far better at speed achieving combat accuracy with my 6.5 lb M&P trigger tham a 10+ lb revolver trigger in DA mode.

That is with stock trigger. There are more striker trigger that are either lighter or smoother available than that, and even the stock trigger can be significantly smoothened with a modification that can be done with minimal skill and moderate cost.

Grupp size? I can make head shots at 35 yards with my M&P 40. I have plenty of accuracy.

Sure, not all self-loaders have great triggers, but let's not pretend that all revolver triggers are "exquisite."

My DA triggers sure are nice, even stock. And a guy that practices can surely shoot every but as good as a guy with an auto loader.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Recent posts, points....

I agree with a few of the recent points but I also take issue with a few;
I don't say there are "lots" of 8 shot revolvers. I'm aware of only 2 brands, two. The Smith & Wesson M&P R8 series is hardly within reach of most US handgun buyers.
It would be great for hunting, home protection or maybe target-match use but I could not see anyone lug around a N frame revolver that size all day .
I'd add that there are some recent DA/striker fired duty-defense pistols with less than great triggers but you have to factor in that with a carry pistol, you're shooting at human beings. Not a paper or steel target 50 yards or 100m away.
Accuracy is important & only hits count, but a violent felon or attacker isn't 3" by 5". A "smooth" trigger is nice but you do not need a $2000.00 "race gun" to defend yourself. There are several well made pistols & DA/DAO wheelguns able to protect you.
Id also repeat that ammunition has improved in the last 20+ years. As more armed citizens & cops/security/PMCs use semi auto pistols, the engineering-designs got better. DA or DA only revolvers can & still get a lot of use but to compare them to a 15/16/18 shot pistol as a serious defense weapon doesn't hold up in 2014. Carrying 26-40 rounds vs 18 rounds isn't really a big dispute for me.

Rusty

 

[45_auto]

Yes, it is a catch phrase that is thrown around by people lacking reasoning capability to belittle people who carries anything that appears more prepared for violence than them when they run out of logical reponse.

Nope, it's actually a term used to mean an unexperienced but enthusiastic weapon owner who pretends to be a seasoned operator.

Definition is here:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mall+ninja

 

[tarosean]

I don't say there are "lots" of 8 shot revolvers. I'm aware of only 2 brands, two. The Smith & Wesson M&P R8 series is hardly within reach of most US handgun buyers.
It would be great for hunting, home protection or maybe target-match use but I could not see anyone lug around a N frame revolver that size all day .

If we get down to it there are only 3 major companies competing in the revolver market now-a-days, aside from a few odds and ends and SAA's, and they all produce a 8 round revolver. while Ruger content with their high cap being 22lr. Taurus and S&W produce 357 versions. S&W does put out the 327/627 in 2" barrel form too...

 

[Haywood]

I only carry Revolvers. I have Two Semi-Autos but, I rarely shoot them. Snubs are my favorite to shoot and carry.

 

[benzy2]

If we want to talk about which is easier to shoot quickly stock, it is far and away a semi-auto. A short, medium weight trigger pull with short reset is most certainly going to show good results quicker than a long, heavy trigger pull with long reset. That isn't to say you can't become competent with a stock DA revolver or that some aren't very slick and even moderate in pull weight with a little work. Still, take the new HK VP9 or a Walther PPQ to the range alongside any current production revolver and on a timer I'm willing to bet nearly everyone who isn't a seasoned revolver shooter will shoot faster times with the autos, and even those who are typical revolver guys will be a toss up. From a speed point of view, is there a single game/division where revolvers and autos are grouped together and the revolvers are competitive?

I greatly enjoy my revolvers. Some are stock, some have been mildly slicked up. The SA pull is very good on them and are great for slow fire target shooting, even out of the box. Their DA pull is nowhere close to being equivalent to any decent non-DAO auto made today. Just two different guns that do different things well. If I were forced to use a gun against another person(s), I don't think I'd grab a revolver. For having fun at the range, I'll grab whatever sounds most interesting that day. For shooting itty bitty groups, I'll grab the revolvers.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

A short, medium weight trigger pull with short reset is most certainly going to show good results quicker than a long, heavy trigger pull with long reset.

True, but I can't figure out why you would make a generalized statement implying that all revolvers have long heavy trigger pulls. My Smith's have triggers that I would wager are just as nice as any stock Sig or fine triggered auto out there (stock triggers). Now typically striker fired guns will have a shorter reset, and often a shorter pull so I see your point there.

From a speed point of view, is there a single game/division where revolvers and autos are grouped together and the revolvers are competitive?

That would be interesting to watch. I honestly think there are a lot of revolver shooters out there who can shoot revolvers just as, or faster than a lot of autos.

Personally, I find myself shooting revolvers faster. My triggers are smooth, and the recoil just feels differently to me. The gun roles in my hand, as apposed to auto's that tend to snap in my hand harder. I find the former to lead to faster front sight reaquisition. I don't have any numbers to back that though. It's just the feeling I get. I tend to put after market grips on my revolvers too, so it's possible my revolvers just fit my hands a little better than my autos. That illustrates a benefit to revolvers again though.

If I were forced to use a gun against another person(s), I don't think I'd grab a revolver.

I would. But interestingly enough, an HK45 sits next to my bed, and a 686+ sits in the end table in the living room.

I think both types of guns are very high in utility. But as I said earlier, both types of guns do some things better than each other. However, autos are what most police and military use, and they are prolific in movies, tv, and video games, so that is what is in style.

But that fact does not in any way make revolvers passe'. There are still a lot of us out there that heavily favor revolvers.

 

[Sol]

I thought revolver trend may see an uptick and that's why you aren't seeing as many on the shelves OP.

With today's day and age of "hipsters" and "steampunks", which I see quite frequently, a revolver and a Penny-Farthing would make quite a pairing.

No self-respecting person who uses moustache wax in their handlebar moustache would be caught dead with a Glock.

All speculative of course, but I can see many gun owners (not "gun people")
buying the gun less for "tactical" uses and more so of a fashion statement.

 

[fastbolt]

Why have revolvers become passé ?

Advertising. Movies. Seeing holstered handguns on LE belts transition from revolvers to semiauto pistols. More semiauto pistols in display cases at gun stores. Wanting more capacity. Etc.

I miss the days when handgun shooters (especially LE) developed their foundation shooting skillset using DA revolvers, though.

Some newer/younger LE firearms instructors have looked at me like I'm misguided when I've offered the opinion that a fully rounded instructor ought to be familiar with DA/DAO revolvers, traditional DA pistols (also called DA/SA by a lot of folks) and SA pistols (and shotguns, as well as rifles). Only being able to teach and train with a specific type of plastic pistol, or a limited range of pistols, may be fine for a specific agency's needs, but it also limits the development of the instructor, to a degree.

The older, more experienced instructors usually nod their heads in agreement, and offer an observation that a skilled DA revolver shooter is often a more skilled, all-around handgun shooter.

I remember the first time I watched another instructor cut loose with an issued hi-cap 9mm after we'd transitioned from service revolvers to semiauto pistols. LOTS of fast misses on the intended pepper popper target. Upon being castigated by a couple of other instructors, he offered some lame response about using all the ammo the newer hi-cap pistols offered.

Precision, skilled handgun shooting is still precision, skilled handgun shooting, regardless of the on-board ammo capacity. It's NOT an area saturation bombardment.

Some folks who like to complain about subtle differences of trigger pulls in different pistols might have a different perspective after having learned to properly perform a revolver DA/DAO trigger stroke.

 

[ljnowell]

I agree with a few of the recent points but I also take issue with a few;
I don't say there are "lots" of 8 shot revolvers. I'm aware of only 2 brands, two. The Smith & Wesson M&P R8 series is hardly within reach of most US handgun buyers.
It would be great for hunting, home protection or maybe target-match use but I could not see anyone lug around a N frame revolver that size all day .
I'd add that there are some recent DA/striker fired duty-defense pistols with less than great triggers but you have to factor in that with a carry pistol, you're shooting at human beings. Not a paper or steel target 50 yards or 100m away.
Accuracy is important & only hits count, but a violent felon or attacker isn't 3" by 5". A "smooth" trigger is nice but you do not need a $2000.00 "race gun" to defend yourself. There are several well made pistols & DA/DAO wheelguns able to protect you.
Id also repeat that ammunition has improved in the last 20+ years. As more armed citizens & cops/security/PMCs use semi auto pistols, the engineering-designs got better. DA or DA only revolvers can & still get a lot of use but to compare them to a 15/16/18 shot pistol as a serious defense weapon doesn't hold up in 2014. Carrying 26-40 rounds vs 18 rounds isn't really a big dispute for me.

Rusty

Pretty much agree with everything you said here Rusty.

I will also add, as I said before, self defense isn't the only use of a gun and most will never he used for that purpose(actually fired in self defense). Overall popularity I see lots of revolvers everytime I go to the range.

 

[gamestalker]

There certainly has been a decline in the revolver being a first choice weapon for most. This is simply the result of thee constant development and introduction of an every growing variety of reasonably priced auto loading handguns. A person can go out and find a decent quality NIB AL for about $300 or so. Try to find a decent quality revolver, even a used revolver for $300 is a tough find. I can easily find 2 decent NIB AL's for the price of one decent used S&W M19 or M66.

I myself have quite a few AL's, and although my AL inventory out numbers that of my wheel guns by more than 2 to 1, my weapon of choice has been, and always will be a revolver.

GS

 

[ljnowell]

There certainly has been a decline in the revolver being a first choice weapon for most. This is simply the result of thee constant development and introduction of an every growing variety of reasonably priced auto loading handguns. A person can go out and find a decent quality NIB AL for about $300 or so. Try to find a decent quality revolver, even a used revolver for $300 is a tough find. I can easily find 2 decent NIB AL's for the price of one decent used S&W M19 or M66.



I myself have quite a few AL's, and although my AL inventory out numbers that of my wheel guns by more than 2 to 1, my weapon of choice has been, and always will be a revolver.



GS

Used S&W model 10s and 64s sell at the 300 or lower point all the time. Likewise you can find used S&W j frames in that range frequently. The new ones are only about 50-75 more.

I would also be willing to argue that a 300 dollar NIB semi auto is not of the quality of a S&W revolver. To get a truly quality gun you need to add about 200 dollars to that figure.

And I'm with you, the majority of the time the gun in my holster or in my pocket is a revolver. Some days I feel groggy and load up my Glock or 1911, but usually it's a j-frame or a 686/586.

 

[BSA1]

The O.P. asks why revolvers have become passé?

The simple answer is they have not. In fact revolvers are well on the way to reclaiming the throne as the King.

From a political standpoint sales of new semi-automatics in some States are being restricted and some manufacturers are discontinuing marketing them altogether. When you take away the ammo capacity with magazine bans it narrows the differences a lot.

The revolver is the undisputed King of Power.

The revolver is the undisputed King of Versatility.

The selection of different models is constantly expanding. We have 5 shot 44 L Frame Magnums to lightweight snubbies and all points in between.

Revolvers are a best seller by women.

The revolver is mechanically superior to the semi-auto. A semi-auto can easily be made into a single-shot or a expensive fishing weight merely by loss of it's magazine(I know, carry more than one magazine). But the fact remains is a semi-auto is a two piece firearm which without a good quality magazines is a wall hanger.

With revolvers it is "where did I leave the bullets?" ;-)

Revolvers are more p.c. Gene, Roy, The Duke all tamed the Wild West with a revolver.

For most civilian self-defense situations a revolver is enough gun. Actually as a civilian if you truly need a high capacity handgun you will be better off with a rifle or shotgun.

 

[boom boom]

Like the old joke, I like both kinds of music, country and western. It is the same as I like both kinds of pistols: revolvers and semi-autos. Both fulfill the first rule of a gunfight--have a gun and thus are suitable for self-defense. Both require training and practice to use well. Revolvers are more intuitive to shoot with someone who has 5 minutes of training, semi-autos put more lead on the target accurately with just a bit more training. Shooting a revolver well requires more training than a semi.

This same can be said of bolt actions versus the new semi-autos--and many of the same points apply. Bolts and revolvers are tolerant of a wide range of ammo and power levels--semi autos--both pistols and rifles are not. Both can have problems--when problems happen with bolt actions (apart from ammo problems), they are usually major. More issues can happen with semi's but are not usually major. Most of the time, the lower capacity of either a bolt action or a revolver is not an issue in self defense until becomes one and so on.

FWIW,
Dealing with an older parent, in the past, I taught her to shoot both revolvers and semi-autos (and a pump action shotgun) which made me really come to grips with the benefits and shortcomings of each in order to train her. Teaching generally does that. However, recently as her arthritis has progressed, she has trouble with the heavy trigger on her Security Six in DAO and problems racking the slide of her Bersa 9mm doublestack. She also had trouble remembering which is the slide release and which is the safety, and loading the magazine in the Bersa and remembering to spank the baby in extracting and reloading the Security Six. She did not have problems with either regarding recoil as the Security Six has Pachmyrs and the Bersa's steel frame soaked up recoil. She did marginally better in accuracy with the Security Six in DAO than the DA/SA of the Bersa but firing the Security Six in SA, did fine at combat ranges.

So as my old hometown has become much more dangerous where she needed to carry outside of the home frequently, required a compromise, I persuaded her to get a new pistol for herself--a Sig P238. She has kept the other guns along with a Mossberg 20 gage pump with a pistol grip as home defense only. The Sig for her had the advantages being able to carry outside of the house due to its light weight, ease of racking the slide, a shortstack magazine that was easier to load, the safety was easier to swipe off, and recoil in .380 was slight. Came with good night sights as well. In her case, the right semi-auto was a better choice because it fit her hand, she could operate the controls, load the magazine, and could shoot the pistol accurately. Only disadvantage is the fieldstripping part as it resembles the Smith 3rd Generation takedown. Solution was a boresnake and I'll field strip and more completely clean it when I am there.

However, one thing I will leave persuadeables with, if you want to be a better shot overall, whether you carry a revolver or not, learn to shoot accurately on a revolver because when you master the DA trigger stroker, you can fire just about anything (even cosmolene crusted sears of Mosin Nagant rifles) because you learn to reset the trigger properly and do not have as much problems with a heavy trigger. And one last thing, the .357 Magnum stoked with 125 JHP from any major ammo manufacturer is one of the best man-stopping rounds out there bar none without the risk of overpenetration--the flamethrower effect and the deafening sound is just icing on the case.

 

[MIL-DOT]

20-30 years ago I would have laughed in your face if you'd have told me that some day I'd have exactly TWICE as many revolvers as semi-autos .

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

If I were forced to use a gun against another person(s), I don't think I'd grab a revolver.

Sure you would. Because ALL self-defense is a "weapon of opportunity" issue.

If you carry a weapon, then the weapon of opportunity is most likely what you're carrying.

If you're not carrying a weapon, then the weapon of opportunity is whatever you can get to in time to be effective. The kid's baseball bat, kitchen cutlery, hammer, or (in the case of firearms), whatever gun presents itself under the circumstances.

No self-respecting person who uses moustache wax in their handlebar moustache would be caught dead with a Glock.

Yes, he will if he needs to as described above.

But of course, what you're talking about is really a matter of personal preference, probably based on esthetics given the example you cited. Which is a perfectly good reason, in my opinion, when it comes to making a personal decision on buying a gun.

The question was, why are revolvers out of fashion. I don't think gunfighter concerns about capacity is the answer.

A MOST excellent point.

The market for firearms, as with most other markets, is driven by public perception far more than actual public performance, or actual public use, with a given product under a given circumstance.

And before people jump on me for this, please note that my use of "public" does not confer specific, individual people within the overall public community.

Market demographics encompasses all types of people, from collectors, casual shooters, military, police, para-military, hunters, competition participants, personal protection, and whatever form of "gun nut" one may also care to include.

Many people who own firearms also carry for personal protection. Most do not.

Some who own firearms for defense actually put in the time, effort, and money to learn how to effectively use their weapon(s). Most do not.

Many who choose a firearm for protection make well informed and educated decisions as to what and why, based on sound evidence and experiences. Sadly...most do not, instead going on hearsay, fads, or what have you.

 

[seeker_two]

Another reason is that revolver ammo tends to be slightly more expensive than autoloader ammo. If manufacturers made as much revolver ammo as auto ammo, demand would be equal with both.

 

[mope540]

Anyone who has any unwanted outdated and no longer 'hip' S&W revolvers can passe them on to me.

pps, i like your V-Comp...and who made the holster??

N frames...

 

[RustyShackelford]

Tragically hip....

I don't really see packing a wheel gun as "hip" or "old school" .
I also don't see it as trendy or "ironic" either.
In 2014, I see way more armed professionals & private citizens using pistols than DA or DAO revolvers. Especially the Glock line.
Glocks are now tricked out, cut, contoured comped & available in nearly every color or camo pattern you might choose.
This wasn't the case, 15-20 years ago.

I don't see the DA revolver making a "comeback" either. Unless some nuclear tip, super frangible anti-personnel round comes out that requires a Blade Runner(1982, www.imdb.com ) type revolver, pistols will continue to be in vogue.

 

[pps]

Carrying a revolver isn't about "being hip." I carry a revolver as my hunting sidearm because, aside from a Glock 20 in 10mm (Double tap or Buffalo Bore ammo) there isn't much out there in semi-auto offerings that are worth a damn against a pissed off wild boar that is coming towards you and your rifle that you just emptied on his buddy.

I'll keep my 8 round 357 or my 6 round in Ruger Bisley Blackhawk (325 grains at 1100 to 1300fps depending on how I hand load it) for hunting purposes.

 

[BullfrogKen]

In 2014, I see way more armed professionals & private citizens using pistols than DA or DAO revolvers. Especially the Glock line.

Hey, you do realize that "armed professionals" don't get to chose what they carry, don't you? That choice is made for them.

By an administrative bean-counter.

Who isn't a gun person.


When I've had conversations with the training officers for the local departments that use my club for training & annual quals they all complain that Glocks are too big. Not for everyone, but for the men with smaller hands and most of the women.

Glocks are cheap. They're easily supported when they break, and that matters when your department buys them dozens at a time. A Glock armorer doesn't need nearly as much training and experience to do field-grade service & part replacements as other handguns.

It's not ergonomics that make Glock popular in policing. It's economics.

 

[HankR]

The market for firearms, as with most other markets, is driven by public perception far more than actual public performance, or actual public use, with a given product under a given circumstance.

Market is also driven by cost and what you are used to. I wanted to get my nephew a 4 inch or so .22 lr revolver, basically a .22 version of his Dad's .357 and something the kid can use to plink with and both and use to train. You can get a Ruger Mark III for about half the price of a quality .22 lr revolver (or at least that's what I was seeing). He shoots my wheelguns, and likes them, but I'm thinking we'll go with the Ruger (I am quite fond of the earlier 22/45).


Another data point. Locals run a Ladies range day where they invite local women (age 10 and up) to "leave your men at home" and come out for a day at the range. Five bucks buys them earplugs, use of lots of guns, ammo, and lunch. I've helped out in the past, and normally bring a variety of semi-auto and revolvers. I skipped it this year since my wife was going and I had another commitment. She claimed that there was only one revolver present, and lots of semi-auto handguns. When asked what she liked best, she liked the 1911 but the AK-47 (semi, I'm pretty sure) was a close second, since it "looked cool". I'm friends with most of the guys who normally run this, and although we've had some younger help lately I was surprised at the lack of revolvers.