Waitone
Member
I wish more "outsiders" would pontificate on our political system.
Why I am voting for the Democrat.
- Thread starter DigitalWarrior
- Start date
- Status
I know this is a somewhat glib answer, but look at the USA like a family argument that's degenerated to the point where the goal is winning rather family interest. When that happens, people do things that are counterproductive to both their own interests and the family's interests.
On a national level, when winning is the primary goal, people align themselves with those who work against their interests in order to remain in the majority, winning, group -- "I can't leave this party that stands against so many things I hold dear. The other guys might win."
Essentially, we've got two parties fixated on how bad the other is rather than taking accountability for their own actions. It really is like watching a husband and wife compete over their child, spoiling him with treat after treat. Each parent contradictorily belittles the other for giving both too much and not enough -- "My treats are caring and prove I'm a good parent, but your treats spoil the child and prove you're a bad parent. I win! Nyah nyah nyah!â€
Then again, maybe we're such an entertainment-oriented society here in the States that we simply care more about "teams" than what's right.
HankB
Member
Waitone wrote:
Originally, full retirement age was 65. The law actually was changed to add a couple of years to the retirement age needed for full social security benefits for persons born after a certain date. See the chart at http://www.ssa.gov/retirechartred.htm (Saving my long rant about SS for another thread.)
Wrong.
Originally, full retirement age was 65. The law actually was changed to add a couple of years to the retirement age needed for full social security benefits for persons born after a certain date. See the chart at http://www.ssa.gov/retirechartred.htm (Saving my long rant about SS for another thread.)
DTLOKEN
quote:
"Democrats seem to want a bigger share of my paycheck.
lol biggest budget defecit ever lol
Hint, it's not a Democrat."
LOL, my taxes were cut. LOL, we are at war.
OTOH, I wish I could LOL about Clinton leaving us exposed to terrorists while he obsessed about militiamen. I wish I could LOL about Kerry voting to cut inteligence and anti-terrorist funding after the first WTC bombing. I wish I could LOL about the Democrats being more concerned about my guns than Osama's. I wish I could LOL about the Democrats wanting to raise my taxes. I wish I could LOL about the Democrats whining about the Patriot act when they voted for it after pushing versions of it for 10 years. Oh wait, I will go ahead and LOL about that one.
GHB
quote:
"Democrats seem to want a bigger share of my paycheck.
lol biggest budget defecit ever lol
Hint, it's not a Democrat."
LOL, my taxes were cut. LOL, we are at war.
OTOH, I wish I could LOL about Clinton leaving us exposed to terrorists while he obsessed about militiamen. I wish I could LOL about Kerry voting to cut inteligence and anti-terrorist funding after the first WTC bombing. I wish I could LOL about the Democrats being more concerned about my guns than Osama's. I wish I could LOL about the Democrats wanting to raise my taxes. I wish I could LOL about the Democrats whining about the Patriot act when they voted for it after pushing versions of it for 10 years. Oh wait, I will go ahead and LOL about that one.
GHB
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
St Johns:
Nope.
Although I was using it to zing MicroBalrog , my observation wasn't meant to be rude in a general way; it is just something I have noticed. Alot of Americans don't realize that a Republican in, say, Rhode Island would be more liberal in most respects than a Democrat in Texas, either. It is just more prevalent amongst foreigners, who generally don't have a reason to know that sort of thing (much like I'm sure some nuances of British politics would totally escape me).
Damn, I'm being a sweetie today.
ANYway,
Crap, a good question.
I'm in the middle of cooking dinner, I'll post my opinions on that in a bit...
Nope.
Although I was using it to zing MicroBalrog
, my observation wasn't meant to be rude in a general way; it is just something I have noticed. Alot of Americans don't realize that a Republican in, say, Rhode Island would be more liberal in most respects than a Democrat in Texas, either. It is just more prevalent amongst foreigners, who generally don't have a reason to know that sort of thing (much like I'm sure some nuances of British politics would totally escape me).Damn, I'm being a sweetie today.
ANYway,
Crap, a good question.
I'm in the middle of cooking dinner, I'll post my opinions on that in a bit...
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
Where did the conservative, Southern Democrat come from?
The first thing to consider is that the Democratic Party was NOT a "liberal" party for most of its history. In fact, the opposite was true. And for much of its history, it predominated in the generally more conservative South for that reason, though it was far from an exclusively regional party. The Civil War hardened these divisions, with the Democratic Party being the party of the "Lost Cause," or the party of treason, depending on which side you were on. Who was on what side in the Civil War had political significance for decades on end. Furthermore, the tremendous acrimony involved ossified party loyalty in regions, families and even across generations.
The "liberalization" of the Democratic Party arguably started with the administrations of Franklin Roosevelt (which coincided with Democrats actually getting Black votes, something astounding when the Republicans were the "Party of Lincoln"), but the Democratic Party didn't really start to split from the internal contradictions this change created until the 1960s. Here both the most liberal and most reactionary aspects of that decade were manifested by the Democratic Party. Here you had LBJ (a Southern Democrat who turned out to be liberal) foisting the Vietnam War on us and supporting the Civil Rights Movement, while great masses of other Democrats joined the anti-war movement, and still other Democrats in the South were violently opposed to the Civil Rights Movement and the laws supporting it pushed by the Southern Democrat, LBJ.
Head hurt yet? Strangely, the 1970s didn't see the breakup of the Democratic Party that would have been logical. The Democratic Party was becoming more uniformly liberal, but Southern Democrats weren't ready to leave the party for the party of Carpetbagger and Scallawag occupation, the Republicans, until the "Reagan Revollution" from 1980 onward.
Starting at that point, though not really complete even by this day, the very conservative elements that made up a considerable proportion of the Democratic Party started leaving for the Republican Party, which by this time was clearly the conservative party of the two. Ironically, this made the Republicans an even MORE conservative party, more Southern and more socially conservative in particular. Here the strong conservatism of the Californian Ronald Reagan starts to look like a sad anachronism, as that state becomes extremely liberal.
So that's half of the equation: the South, being more conservative (generally speaking) has gradually changed in the last century from a Democratic to a Republican stronghold. Meanwhile the North, the former Republican stronghold, has become much more Democratic. This reflects the regional differences: the dominant parties in a region reflect the left-right division (and how far left-right they are, on average) of the voters there.
Put another way, if a Texas-styled Republican were to run in Rhode Island, there would be nobody but Democrats in office there... he'd get keel-hauled. Likewise, if a California Democrat ran for office in Texas, odds are the Texas Democrats would rustle him but good, or whatever it is mad Texans do here (I'm not a native, but a Yankee carpetbagger)... run people like that, and there would be no Democrats at all, except mabye around Austin or something, where Texas stores its dope-smoking hippies.
It isn't a matter of their party comrades tolerating their too-liberal New England Republicans (pro gun control), or too-conservative Texas Democrats (showing off their guns during elections). Rather, the conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats recognize that their party would be totally shut out of these regions if they didn't run candidates like that. It is really the only practical alternative they've got, generally.
Because people in, say, Massachusetts are very different politically from people in Texas, on average. America is a very diverse place on alot of levels, and there is alot of danger in seeing anything in America as monolithic or clear-cut... saying something like "Americans are like so-and-so" is objectively about the stupidest comment in the known universe. This situation has its good and bad aspects.
This is all a 30,000 foot view painted in really broad strokes, of course.
The first thing to consider is that the Democratic Party was NOT a "liberal" party for most of its history. In fact, the opposite was true. And for much of its history, it predominated in the generally more conservative South for that reason, though it was far from an exclusively regional party. The Civil War hardened these divisions, with the Democratic Party being the party of the "Lost Cause," or the party of treason, depending on which side you were on. Who was on what side in the Civil War had political significance for decades on end. Furthermore, the tremendous acrimony involved ossified party loyalty in regions, families and even across generations.
The "liberalization" of the Democratic Party arguably started with the administrations of Franklin Roosevelt (which coincided with Democrats actually getting Black votes, something astounding when the Republicans were the "Party of Lincoln"), but the Democratic Party didn't really start to split from the internal contradictions this change created until the 1960s. Here both the most liberal and most reactionary aspects of that decade were manifested by the Democratic Party. Here you had LBJ (a Southern Democrat who turned out to be liberal) foisting the Vietnam War on us and supporting the Civil Rights Movement, while great masses of other Democrats joined the anti-war movement, and still other Democrats in the South were violently opposed to the Civil Rights Movement and the laws supporting it pushed by the Southern Democrat, LBJ.
Head hurt yet? Strangely, the 1970s didn't see the breakup of the Democratic Party that would have been logical. The Democratic Party was becoming more uniformly liberal, but Southern Democrats weren't ready to leave the party for the party of Carpetbagger and Scallawag occupation, the Republicans, until the "Reagan Revollution" from 1980 onward.
Starting at that point, though not really complete even by this day, the very conservative elements that made up a considerable proportion of the Democratic Party started leaving for the Republican Party, which by this time was clearly the conservative party of the two. Ironically, this made the Republicans an even MORE conservative party, more Southern and more socially conservative in particular. Here the strong conservatism of the Californian Ronald Reagan starts to look like a sad anachronism, as that state becomes extremely liberal.
So that's half of the equation: the South, being more conservative (generally speaking) has gradually changed in the last century from a Democratic to a Republican stronghold. Meanwhile the North, the former Republican stronghold, has become much more Democratic. This reflects the regional differences: the dominant parties in a region reflect the left-right division (and how far left-right they are, on average) of the voters there.
Put another way, if a Texas-styled Republican were to run in Rhode Island, there would be nobody but Democrats in office there... he'd get keel-hauled. Likewise, if a California Democrat ran for office in Texas, odds are the Texas Democrats would rustle him but good, or whatever it is mad Texans do here (I'm not a native, but a Yankee carpetbagger)... run people like that, and there would be no Democrats at all, except mabye around Austin or something, where Texas stores its dope-smoking hippies.
It isn't a matter of their party comrades tolerating their too-liberal New England Republicans (pro gun control), or too-conservative Texas Democrats (showing off their guns during elections). Rather, the conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats recognize that their party would be totally shut out of these regions if they didn't run candidates like that. It is really the only practical alternative they've got, generally.
Because people in, say, Massachusetts are very different politically from people in Texas, on average. America is a very diverse place on alot of levels, and there is alot of danger in seeing anything in America as monolithic or clear-cut... saying something like "Americans are like so-and-so" is objectively about the stupidest comment in the known universe. This situation has its good and bad aspects.
This is all a 30,000 foot view painted in really broad strokes, of course.
Shooter 2.5
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 476
JOHN KERRY VOTING RECORD:: THE LIST
ABORTION
Voted to federally fund abortions.
Voted against parental consent for minors.
Voted against ban on Partial Birth Abortion (3 times)
Voted against ban on sending money to UN population fund if the money was sent to pay for China forced abortion and sterilization policy.
NARAL lifetime rating of 100%
National Right to Life Committee lifetime rating of 0%
DEATH PENALTY
Opposes federal death penalty.
Voted against death penalty for terrorists. (recently flip-flopped in 2002)
Voted against death penalty for drug-related murders.
TAXES & BUDGET
Voted against Bush tax cut and wants to repeal portions of Bush tax cut.
Voted for 1993 Clinton tax hike. (largest in history)
Voted against major tax relief packages at least 10 times.
Voted at least 5 times against balance budget amendments.
Kerry voted at least five times to raid The Social Security Trust Fund.
MILITARY & NATIONAL SECURITY
Voted for 7 major reductions in military funding Voted against Gulf War I (1991).
Voted for Gulf War II (but then criticized and voted against military appropriation for troops).
Voted against MX missile.
Voted against Trident Submarine.
Voted against SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative – Star Wars).
Voted against B-1 and B-2 Stealth Bomber and Fighter.
Favored UN control of US Troops (in the 1970s).
Supported Slashing $2.6 Billion from Intelligence Funding While Serving as a Member of Senate Intel Committee.
Attended a seminar (the so-called "Winter Soldier Investigation) bankrolled by Jane Fonda in Detroit in February 1971 during which 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testified at a Howard Johnson's about atrocities allegedly committed by our own forces.
Many of the so-called Veterans were frauds and virtually every alleged atrocity was investigated and proven to be false.
FAITH & VALUES
Voted against ban on human cloning.
Voted Against Defense of Marriage Act (to give states option to decide whether to recognize homosexual marriages in other states).
Sent letter to Massachusetts Legislature opposing Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as solely between a man and a woman.
Favors civil unions for homosexuals.
Voted to extend hate crimes protections to homosexuals.
Voted against a constitutional amendment on flag desecration.
EDUCATION
Voted against voluntary school prayer.
Voted against voucher pilot program.
Voted against approving a school-choice pilot program
JUDGES, COURTS & LAW
Voted against confirmation of Clarence Thomas for Supreme Court Justice.
Voted against confirmation of Robert Bork for Supreme Court Justice.
Voted against confirmation William Rehnquist as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
Voted against confirmation John Ashcroft as US Attorney General.
Voted against punitive damages in products liability cases. As Michael Dukakis Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates.
FOREIGN POLICY
Against linking Most Favored Nation status to China human rights record.
Voted for Kyoto Protocol on Environment that exempted major Third Word polluters.
Supported Iraq regime change as late as January, 2003.
Now has flipped-flopped For Unilateral nuclear Freeze.
Voted against deployment of INF missiles in Europe.
POLITICAL ASSOCIATIONS
Leading member of VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War)
Attended and conducted anti-war and anti-American protests in the 1970s. Organized the Protests.
Votes with Ted Kennedy an average of 94% of the time.
Received $300,000 contribution from Johnny Chung as directed by Chinese intelligence officer.
Supported Communist Sandinistas and visited with leader Communist Daniel Ortega days before Ortega flew to Moscow and received $200 million in Soviet aid.
Has a lifetime rating of 26% from Citizens Against Government Waste.
Has a lifetime rating of 0% from the National Rifle Association.
Lifetime liberal vote rating of 93% from Americans For Democratic Action (5 points higher than Ted Kennedy).
Voted with the liberal activist group, The League Of Conservation Voters, an average of 95% of the time.
ABORTION
Voted to federally fund abortions.
Voted against parental consent for minors.
Voted against ban on Partial Birth Abortion (3 times)
Voted against ban on sending money to UN population fund if the money was sent to pay for China forced abortion and sterilization policy.
NARAL lifetime rating of 100%
National Right to Life Committee lifetime rating of 0%
DEATH PENALTY
Opposes federal death penalty.
Voted against death penalty for terrorists. (recently flip-flopped in 2002)
Voted against death penalty for drug-related murders.
TAXES & BUDGET
Voted against Bush tax cut and wants to repeal portions of Bush tax cut.
Voted for 1993 Clinton tax hike. (largest in history)
Voted against major tax relief packages at least 10 times.
Voted at least 5 times against balance budget amendments.
Kerry voted at least five times to raid The Social Security Trust Fund.
MILITARY & NATIONAL SECURITY
Voted for 7 major reductions in military funding Voted against Gulf War I (1991).
Voted for Gulf War II (but then criticized and voted against military appropriation for troops).
Voted against MX missile.
Voted against Trident Submarine.
Voted against SDI (Strategic Defense Initiative – Star Wars).
Voted against B-1 and B-2 Stealth Bomber and Fighter.
Favored UN control of US Troops (in the 1970s).
Supported Slashing $2.6 Billion from Intelligence Funding While Serving as a Member of Senate Intel Committee.
Attended a seminar (the so-called "Winter Soldier Investigation) bankrolled by Jane Fonda in Detroit in February 1971 during which 125 self-proclaimed Vietnam veterans testified at a Howard Johnson's about atrocities allegedly committed by our own forces.
Many of the so-called Veterans were frauds and virtually every alleged atrocity was investigated and proven to be false.
FAITH & VALUES
Voted against ban on human cloning.
Voted Against Defense of Marriage Act (to give states option to decide whether to recognize homosexual marriages in other states).
Sent letter to Massachusetts Legislature opposing Constitutional Amendment defining marriage as solely between a man and a woman.
Favors civil unions for homosexuals.
Voted to extend hate crimes protections to homosexuals.
Voted against a constitutional amendment on flag desecration.
EDUCATION
Voted against voluntary school prayer.
Voted against voucher pilot program.
Voted against approving a school-choice pilot program
JUDGES, COURTS & LAW
Voted against confirmation of Clarence Thomas for Supreme Court Justice.
Voted against confirmation of Robert Bork for Supreme Court Justice.
Voted against confirmation William Rehnquist as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
Voted against confirmation John Ashcroft as US Attorney General.
Voted against punitive damages in products liability cases. As Michael Dukakis Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates.
FOREIGN POLICY
Against linking Most Favored Nation status to China human rights record.
Voted for Kyoto Protocol on Environment that exempted major Third Word polluters.
Supported Iraq regime change as late as January, 2003.
Now has flipped-flopped For Unilateral nuclear Freeze.
Voted against deployment of INF missiles in Europe.
POLITICAL ASSOCIATIONS
Leading member of VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War)
Attended and conducted anti-war and anti-American protests in the 1970s. Organized the Protests.
Votes with Ted Kennedy an average of 94% of the time.
Received $300,000 contribution from Johnny Chung as directed by Chinese intelligence officer.
Supported Communist Sandinistas and visited with leader Communist Daniel Ortega days before Ortega flew to Moscow and received $200 million in Soviet aid.
Has a lifetime rating of 26% from Citizens Against Government Waste.
Has a lifetime rating of 0% from the National Rifle Association.
Lifetime liberal vote rating of 93% from Americans For Democratic Action (5 points higher than Ted Kennedy).
Voted with the liberal activist group, The League Of Conservation Voters, an average of 95% of the time.
fallingblock
Member
It's the time zone again.....
"It's also come to my attention that a few think I am a troll, I'd say, fine think what you like. I'd also say that since being here on THR I have taken some very difficult lines in discussions with my friends, these lines being pro-US, very pro-RKBA, very pro-individual freedoms and anti-collectivist mindset. Surprise you?"
************************************************************
St. John, you've never met my definition of a troll.
It is obvious that you are seeking contrasting opinions and answers.
The U.S. political scene is very complex, although there are excellent explanations above.
While I may be a hybrid Aussie today, In my forty years U.S. time, I witnessed much of the U.S political dislocation/transition which Sean Smith so ably describes.
Don't despair. Some Australians go all glassy-eyed when I try to explain U.S. politics. It's like me trying to understand cricket.
Especially if they have been relying on the ABC for their information.
"It's also come to my attention that a few think I am a troll, I'd say, fine think what you like. I'd also say that since being here on THR I have taken some very difficult lines in discussions with my friends, these lines being pro-US, very pro-RKBA, very pro-individual freedoms and anti-collectivist mindset. Surprise you?"
************************************************************
St. John, you've never met my definition of a troll.
It is obvious that you are seeking contrasting opinions and answers.
The U.S. political scene is very complex, although there are excellent explanations above.
While I may be a hybrid Aussie today, In my forty years U.S. time, I witnessed much of the U.S political dislocation/transition which Sean Smith so ably describes.
Don't despair. Some Australians go all glassy-eyed when I try to explain U.S. politics. It's like me trying to understand cricket.
Especially if they have been relying on the ABC for their information.
Thanks guys you've cheered me up no end.
Sean - sorry if that post read like it was all aimed at you. Only the first question was. The rest was aimed at my 'detractors' - if indeed they exist. Your post was most informative. Have saved it for much future reference.
Fallingblock - cricket isn't that hard. You just need to get your silly mid-off seperated from your mid-on and your cover-slips and the rest is merely a matter of overs, lbw's, and 'bodyline'. Thanks for your friendliness.
Sean - sorry if that post read like it was all aimed at you. Only the first question was. The rest was aimed at my 'detractors' - if indeed they exist. Your post was most informative. Have saved it for much future reference.
Fallingblock - cricket isn't that hard. You just need to get your silly mid-off seperated from your mid-on and your cover-slips and the rest is merely a matter of overs, lbw's, and 'bodyline'. Thanks for your friendliness.
shooter 2.5,
WHAT AN EXCELLENT RECORD!!!!!!!!!!
We would have a president that RECOGNIZES the seperation of christians and state? excellent. Im VERY Pro-Choice, i DONT care what your religious beleifs are, keep them to yourself, along with your bigoted look upon homosexuals. As for the V.V.A.W., you support what happened in Vietnam? if someone who WAS there can say it was B.S., then who are you to bring that up as a bad point? At least he fought in it.
WHAT AN EXCELLENT RECORD!!!!!!!!!!
We would have a president that RECOGNIZES the seperation of christians and state? excellent. Im VERY Pro-Choice, i DONT care what your religious beleifs are, keep them to yourself, along with your bigoted look upon homosexuals. As for the V.V.A.W., you support what happened in Vietnam? if someone who WAS there can say it was B.S., then who are you to bring that up as a bad point? At least he fought in it.
ojibweindian
Member
When my tax dollars are no longer spent for "pro choice" programs, welfare, and all the other socialist pipe dreams, I'll keep my mouth shut. Until then...
I thought you socialists were saying "the separation of church and state". I would say that you are just as "biggoted", with a huge splash of hypocrite thrown in for bad measure.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/story10.htm
With friends like Kerry, who needs enemas.
Waitone
Member
Shooter 2.5
Interesting summary. Any references?
Interesting summary. Any references?
DigitalWarrior,
Your bio says you live in California. I lived there for most of my life and I guess longer than you have been alive. Democrats have ruined the State.
Do you enjoy waiting 10 days for a gun after you buy it?
Do you like the 1 handgun a month deal?
Do you like to buy new guns that only show up on the "approved list"?
Do you enjoy having to get a license to own a handgun under the HSC?
Do you like Jack Scott, Don Perata, John Burton or do you really know anything about the political structure of CA? (I guess you already answered that question with your post)
Frankly if you did, you would have been for McClintock in the recall of Gray Davis. The California I grew up in was a different place. Socialism and Fascism in practice are so close you couldn't cut them with a sharp razor. Go for it, vote for a Democrat. I'm sure Kerry will take the state anyway.
It is painfully obvious to me that you do not care about your gun rights. Why, because the Dems want to take them all away and that is what they are after. Look at the statements of Senators Di Fi, and Boxhead and many other leaders of the Democrat party out there. The CA Constitution does not allow for the right to keep and bear arms. And with the 9th circuit to oversee it, please help CA.
If the Democrats acted like they did in the PRK here in KY, they would not have a prayer. My concern is that KY Dems get to national office ( as Democrats), the powers in the party make them vote contrary to their beliefs (assuming they had any to begin with).
Your post was one of two things. 1.) to start a debate and 2.) you really believe it. If number 2 is correct, why are you here?
Your bio says you live in California. I lived there for most of my life and I guess longer than you have been alive. Democrats have ruined the State.
Do you enjoy waiting 10 days for a gun after you buy it?
Do you like the 1 handgun a month deal?
Do you like to buy new guns that only show up on the "approved list"?
Do you enjoy having to get a license to own a handgun under the HSC?
Do you like Jack Scott, Don Perata, John Burton or do you really know anything about the political structure of CA? (I guess you already answered that question with your post)
Frankly if you did, you would have been for McClintock in the recall of Gray Davis. The California I grew up in was a different place. Socialism and Fascism in practice are so close you couldn't cut them with a sharp razor. Go for it, vote for a Democrat. I'm sure Kerry will take the state anyway.
It is painfully obvious to me that you do not care about your gun rights. Why, because the Dems want to take them all away and that is what they are after. Look at the statements of Senators Di Fi, and Boxhead and many other leaders of the Democrat party out there. The CA Constitution does not allow for the right to keep and bear arms. And with the 9th circuit to oversee it, please help CA.
If the Democrats acted like they did in the PRK here in KY, they would not have a prayer. My concern is that KY Dems get to national office ( as Democrats), the powers in the party make them vote contrary to their beliefs (assuming they had any to begin with).
Your post was one of two things. 1.) to start a debate and 2.) you really believe it. If number 2 is correct, why are you here?
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
Yes, lets hear it for religious bigotry!
Or what?
Joe Demko
Member
I give this one about 10 more seconds 'til it's locked...
Actually, when you compare the size of the deficit to the size of the economy, it isn't that bad and it isn't out of line with what the deficit has been previously. It's only when you try to make a static comparison that it seems really huge.
Either way, we should start to see the size of the deficit go down during the next presidency, regardless of who's elected. As the economy continues to improve, it will be a lot easier to run a surplus.
JohnBT
Member
"We would have a president that RECOGNIZES the seperation of christians and state? excellent."
There is no law requiring the separation of "christians and state" or Jews and state, or Catholics and state. The separation is between an established church and the state. There is a significant difference. I see you're in Virginia. Read up on Mr. Jefferson's original writings on Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedoms.
Prior to this Statute, you needed the state's permission to marry and do various other things and the state's taxes were collected by "the church".
www.pbs.org/wnet/historyofus/web03/segment4.html
John
P.S. - Vote for a Democrat? Perish the thought. At least until they get some sense.
There is no law requiring the separation of "christians and state" or Jews and state, or Catholics and state. The separation is between an established church and the state. There is a significant difference. I see you're in Virginia. Read up on Mr. Jefferson's original writings on Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedoms.
Prior to this Statute, you needed the state's permission to marry and do various other things and the state's taxes were collected by "the church".
www.pbs.org/wnet/historyofus/web03/segment4.html
John
P.S. - Vote for a Democrat? Perish the thought. At least until they get some sense.
grnzbra
Member
Chuckie Schummer for President and Diane Feinstien for Veep.
GoRon
Member
Our freedoms, culture and prosperity didn't arise out of a vacume. They are the fruit of a Judeo \ Protestant Christian society. The Roman Catholic Church has only recently (cold war) joined the battle for freedom. They have made a real difference in some areas (Poland, abortion in the US). The pedophile Priests have done great damage to the cause of traditional values. The Democrats stand for every thing that is the antithesis to a free nation. They oppose the right to bear arms, they don't value property rights, they seek to absolve us of the responsibility to take care of ourselves and our own by cradle to grave government programs. They show outright contempt for Christianity. The Republicans are guilty of all the same but only in lesser degree. Only a GOOD, RESPONSIBLE people can remain truly free. Our loss of freedoms are in direct proportion to our failure to live up to our obligations as a free people.
Shooter 2.5
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 476
Waitone, Kerry votes on the left of Teddy, the swimmer. Along with his 0% rating from the NRA that's good enough for me to hope he never sees another political office.
As far as Viet Nam is concerned, I bow to the opinions of the Viet Nam refugees in this country who wish we would have stayed and finished the job.
As far as Viet Nam is concerned, I bow to the opinions of the Viet Nam refugees in this country who wish we would have stayed and finished the job.
- Status