Why I gave up on red dot sights.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by brutus51, Jun 16, 2022.

  1. brutus51

    brutus51 Member

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    Wanting to experience the latest and greatest I purchased a Sig P365XL with the Romeo zero sight.
    Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it in the beginning, kept practicing and eventually got better.
    Then I realized it was affecting the way I shoot all my other iron sight handguns. Took it off the gun and am using the supplied night sights. Like it much better this way, no batteries to worry about and it shoots like all my other guns. Sometimes new technology isn't all it's cracked up to be. :scrutiny:
     
  2. wally

    wally Member

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    You'll change your tune when you get old and can't focus on the front sight.

    But you are indeed correct in that you need to use them differently. With irons its focus on the front sight, with red dots it is look through the dot and focus on the target. This is why I think having red dots that co-witness with the irons is counter productive, although it does help when tweaking the red dot zero adjustments.

    If you can use iron sights effectively there is no reason to add a red dot.
     
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  3. brutus51

    brutus51 Member

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    At 71 years my eyesight ain't the greatest, 7yards is the new 25. :(
    I can still hit the target at 25 but mostly from memory. ;)
     
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  4. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I'm a bit nearsighted, can see front sight okay without glasses; but, glasses fuzz my front sight.
    In contrast, the red dot has fuzz, a ear or tail without glasses; but, glasses make the red dot clear.
    Initially, my subsequent shots were slow with dot compared to fixed; after 3-4 range trips and ~500 rounds my speed with dot is better.
    I like being able to be target focused (dot) rather than front sight focused; also, if I'm wearing my glasses I've got some eye protection.
     
  5. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I'm farsighted with astigmatism, I want to start trying some MRD combinations to see if I can make it work, but I don't want to start milling my old guns for adapter plates yet either.
     
  6. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Can’t say I understand that, if you’ve figured out the dot. The fundamentals are the same, grip, draw and trigger press are the same.

    Unless you mean you are target focusing with iron sights instead of looking for your front site, and that just seems like a repetition thing.

    I haven’t noticed any difference switching between the two systems, I typically bring one of each to range days, and do some of my dry fire with irons as well as dot, though I typically use the dot more.
     
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  7. SimonRL

    SimonRL Member

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    I don’t have any problem switching between iron sights and red dot, but most of my pistols have red dots these days. I think you would have been better starting with a red dot on a full size gun. At SD range you really don’t need a red dot on a P365 as you’re probably going to point shoot. Beyond 10 yds the P365 can be difficult to shoot well and while a red dot may help the snappiness of the gun works against you. My first red dot was on an X5 Legion and I have not looked back. If you had been more comfortable with the red dot, you probably wouldn’t have had issues going back to iron sights. There’s nothing wrong with the technology, it’s the old dog, new trick dilemma.
     
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  8. brutus51

    brutus51 Member

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    Hey!! I resemble that.:p
     
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  9. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

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    Too late for some of us; certainly me. I grew up with and was trained for many years to focus on the front sight. I am an old dog and new tricks aren't warmly embraced.
     
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  10. Atavar

    Atavar Member

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    I have red dots on a couple of pistols and the problem I have is that they slow down target acquisition from the draw. Assuming that your red dot turns itself on when you move it, from a draw the first thing you have to do is find the dot in the sight, then acquire the target and line the dot up on it.
    Maybe I’m doing it wrong but for a defense pistol I just feel that iron sights are significantly faster.
    I will keep the dots on my target pistols, but I hate them on my carry pistols.
     
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  11. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    You are, IMO, doing it wrong.

    The advantage, and challenge for folks trained in front site focus, is that the dot lets you stay target focused. You focus on the target and start your draw, and stay on the target till the glowing dot arrives in your vision as you finish drawing.

    It’s a significant advantage for a CCW type gun as you’ll likely instinctively be target focused anyway, if there’s a bad guy after you and adrenaline is flowing.

    If the dot isn’t coming into vision as you get on target your drawstroke or grip is off, and thats an area to address (dry fire is great here).

    The dots do a good job of highlighting things you are doing that are suboptimal but you don’t realize you automatically adjust for, like finding your sights then target without realizing you didn’t come up out of the holster on target.

    Or at least that’s my opinion. It did take me a good solid weekend and a lot of dry fire to make that process click in my brain but I’m faster on target now, and much more consistently accurate on my first shot on drills like FAST or the like.
     
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  12. LeftyRed

    LeftyRed Member

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    Good for you! You found what works for you and just enjoy live life to the fullest.
     
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  13. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    That is absolutely true. Ultra Dots on my target pistols have brought me out to the range.

    S&W M46
    HTsKjB7.jpg


    m7LLcAh.jpg


    I like being able to grab the Ultra Dot and rack the slide. Les Baer told me not to shoot anything heavier than a 200 grain bullet.

    OfZ3FcL.jpg

    Even the young guys in the AMU are using red dot type sights

    hi4HdlC.jpg

    CChUvQ4.jpg
     
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  14. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I put the suppressor height sights on this G45, not to co-witness, but in the event the optic quits. My 66 year old eyes really like this Trijicon red dot.
    G45MOS.jpg
     
  15. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    Past the midpoint of my seventh decade Red Dot sights have come to late in my life cycle. I no longer shoot 25 &50 Yds., on a regular basis. I have a very spartan handgun range on the property confiding my shooting to mostly 10Yds and under with a S&W Shield 9X19 mm That's my story!
     
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  16. The Glockodile

    The Glockodile Member

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    I have "backup irons" on all of my red dot pistols...

    ...but you know what, I don't carry a little Allen Wrench to fumble my way out of a dead battery / cracked glass RDS, and not all of them have these fugly "suppressor height" sights.

    What on earth do we do this for? :rofl:
     
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  17. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I don't care for them on handguns either.
     
  18. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

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    If RDS didn't exist I'd have sold most of my handguns. I seriously can't shoot well with irons these days.

    And watching the scores (and the change in how scores are calculated) for RDS bearing guns in the various sports it is pretty obvious that even for people with good eyes, and faster fingers than me, red dots are all but cheating, and you should always cheat.
     
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  19. The Glockodile

    The Glockodile Member

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    Which manufacturer uses the catchphrase "unfair advantage?"
     
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  20. valnar

    valnar Member

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    I'm 53. I haven't converted all my handguns - just the few I shoot a lot. My eyes can't focus on both iron sights these days either.

    Iron sights weren't a problem for anyone back when they were invented. Humans start getting crappy eye sight in their 40's, and that was the life expectancy in the 19th century. Today, like with all things, necessity is the mother of invention.
     
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  21. HollowDawg

    HollowDawg Member

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    Kinda seems like fiber optic sights are the best of both worlds? Not great in the dark but really help w sight acquisition in my experience.
     
  22. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

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    Still need to focus on it, so fiber and larger sights works for some types of eye issues, or work for a few years (seen people progress through the options), but not for me. Tried some other upgrades before I settled on the pistol RDS route.

    I mean, even on rifles I could take 600 yd headshots with match irons on a FAL way back when. No more!
     
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  23. doubleh

    doubleh Member

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    I am into serious geezerhood and doubt many more on this forum are further along than I. I am about 50/50 between red dots and iron sights on my handguns. I have no problem with seeing the dots. Thanks to cataract removal I can also use iron sights now. I find I am more accurate with the dot though. Scopes on pistols are what eat my lunch in the sighting department. No muscle mass anymore and tremors even with medication make them useless for me except for using a very good rest.

    I always feel kind of ashamed of myself when shooting at 7 or even 10 yards now as it was always 25 yards or more until age told me I couldn't have any luck with that except from a rest.

    I see shooting as whatever floats your particular boat, guns, sights, calibers, etc. As long as you are able to enjoy yourself that is what counts, not what someone else thinks you should use. Be safe, have fun, and keep on shooting.
     
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  24. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Tricky part is that there are two "methods" for RDS on handguns.

    With the round ones, you generally do as with carbines & rifles, and want the cot centered in the round.
    With the squared off, reflector-style, sights, you can move the dot down to the top of the front sight, so that the sight picture, and the presentation, exactly matches irons.

    With that latter method, the draw and presentation remains the same. You merely wait for the Dot to appear on target while you remain target focused.
     
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  25. SimonRL

    SimonRL Member

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    I certainly understand that. That seems to be the case for a lot of people trying a red dot for the first time. I’m the same way with cars. I’m a manual transmission until I die guy. It’s what I’ve driven all my life and to me, anything else is just riding, not driving.
     
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