Why is the 45-70 so popular?

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drunkenpoacher said:
It is one of the best legal deer cartridges in several states and it can be loaded with a wide variety of bullet weights and power levels.
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But how many cartridges can you say that about? It's not like the 45/70 is any better at what it does and in many respects it's a whole lot worse. So what keeps it going is - as I've said - romance.

The only real practical "modern" (if you want to call it that) feature I've seen in favor of the 45/70 is that you can swap .410 shells with in a self-defense weapon. Otherwise, for any objective reason it's obsolete.
 
Newtosavage said:
But how many cartridges can you say that about? It's not like the 45/70 is any better at what it does and in many respects it's a whole lot worse. So what keeps it going is - as I've said - romance.

The only real practical "modern" (if you want to call it that) feature I've seen in favor of the 45/70 is that you can swap .410 shells with in a self-defense weapon. Otherwise, for any objective reason it's obsolete.
Click to expand...
These are the choices for deer in Iowa. What would you pick?

Only the following center-fire cartridges may
be used: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375
Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag,
10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41
Action Express, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington
Magnum, .44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445
Super Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag,
.45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Silhouette, .451
Detonics, .454 Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460
Rowland, .460 S&W Mag, .475 Widley Magnum,
.475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action
Express, .50 Linebaugh, .50 Beowulf and .500
S&W Mag.
 
drunkenpoacher said:
These are the choices for deer in Iowa. What would you pick?

Only the following center-fire cartridges may
be used: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375
Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag,
10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41
Action Express, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington
Magnum, .44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445
Super Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag,
.45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Silhouette, .451
Detonics, .454 Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460
Rowland, .460 S&W Mag, .475 Widley Magnum,
.475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action
Express, .50 Linebaugh, .50 Beowulf and .500
S&W Mag.
Click to expand...

That list becomes pretty narrow for most people when you consider for the average person they need to be able to buy the ammo locally and there needs to be an affordable rifle chambered in it. My top choices would be 45-70 or 444 in a marlin. I would also be very happy with a 357 maximum, 375 winchester and some of the magnum revolver rounds in a contender, handi rifle, or lever gun. I certainly would not use a 38 super or 45 ACP.
 
So are you saying the Iowa hunting regulations are single-handedly keeping the 45-70 going?

To answer your question - it would be the .444 Marlin.
 
someguy2800 said:
That list becomes pretty narrow for most people when you consider for the average person they need to be able to buy the ammo locally and there needs to be an affordable rifle chambered in it. My top choices would be 45-70 or 444 in a marlin. I would also be very happy with a 357 maximum, 375 winchester and some of the magnum revolver rounds in a contender, handi rifle, or lever gun. I certainly would not use a 38 super or 45 ACP.
Click to expand...
Those are the rifle/handgun rounds that can be used during the regular gun seasons. Shotguns with slugs and muzzle loaders are also legal.
 
Newtosavage said:
So are you saying the Iowa hunting regulations are single-handedly keeping the 45-70 going?

To answer your question - it would be the .444 Marlin.
Click to expand...

Well if recoil is a consideration as you previously mentioned then 444 is a much much worse choice than a 45-70. Most 45-70 factory ammo is around 2300-2400 ft lbs or so. The 444 factory ammo from hornady and remington is 2900-3300 ft lbs. The 45-70 ammo is also much more widely available. If you handload you can run either of them from 1000-3500+ ft lbs if you so desire.
 
drunkenpoacher said:
Those are the rifle/handgun rounds that can be used during the regular gun seasons. Shotguns with slugs and muzzle loaders are also legal.
Click to expand...

That's better than the lower half of Minnesota gets. They can only use a shotgun, muzzleloader, or a legal handgun during firearms season. No option at all for a rifle. I always thought they should allow rifles with straight wall cartridges as well. I live in the northern half of the state so I get to use whatever I want.
 
someguy2800 said:
Well if recoil is a consideration as you previously mentioned then 444 is a much much worse choice than a 45-70. Most 45-70 factory ammo is around 2300-2400 ft lbs or so. The 444 factory ammo from hornady and remington is 2900-3300 ft lbs. The 45-70 ammo is also much more widely available. If you handload you can run either of them from 1000-3500+ ft lbs if you so desire.
Click to expand...
does that 444 ammo you cited use pistol bullets like most 444 rounds
 
Newtosavage said:
No disrespect to 45/70 lovers, but I have no idea why anyone today would choose this cartridge unless they were just a masochist with no awareness of ballistics, or they are simply a hopeless romantic. I still carry and use my pre-64 Winchester 30-30 for sentimental reasons. But at least it doesn't beat the hell out of me. LOL
Click to expand...

The cool thing is that a big heavy bullet doesn't need to be moving all that fast in order to kill medium game. You don't have to hot rod it to the point that your shoulder dislocates and your retinas detach. A 400+ grain bullet loaded just right so that recoil is a pleasant, slow, steady push will do the job on deer.

Yes, you'll have to learn to deal with the round's trajectory, but that's part of the fun for a lot of us. I guess comparing the .45-70 to a flat pointy round is like comparing analogue photography to digital photography. Yes, digital is more convenient and user friendly, but analogue still has a certain organic warmth that makes the extra work worthwhile. Same for music. Digital modeling guitar amps are neat gadgets, but I'll take the sound of a vintage tube amp.

There's more to shooting and hunting than a race for the fastest bullets and highest tech designs.
 
salt&battery said:
does that 444 ammo you cited use pistol bullets like most 444 rounds
Click to expand...

That is factory remington 240 grain JSP, hornady 265 grain leverevolution and hornady 265 grain superformance which are the only three mass market 444 loads available outside of specialty manufactures. The two hornady bullets are made specifically for the 444. There are also several other options for heavier 444 reloading bullets that perform well.

Also just to clarify I am not saying 444 is better than 45-70, it is not. Just saying factory 444 ammo is hotter than factory 45-70. At least the stuff you will pick off the shelf at the local store.
 
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Newtosavage said:
But how many cartridges can you say that about? It's not like the 45/70 is any better at what it does and in many respects it's a whole lot worse.
Click to expand...
In Iowa and Ohio it's one of the best legal calibers along with .444 Marlin - the Hornady FTX loads are the fastest, flattest shooting and highest BC option in a factory load. If you use an 1895 with a recoil pad the guns are pretty handy and the recoil while stout is acceptable. It really is the best off the shelf solution.

Of course, that's not the real purpose of the .45-70. It's just an artifact of how the law works. But it is a valid application. The place where the .45-70 really shines is with game bigger than elk and dangerous game. Bears and the various large bovines are obvious candidates. I also like my .45-90 for hogs, just because where I hunt the shots are short and the brush is miserable, and I really don't want to have to track. While hogs aren't really dangerous, wounded ones in tight quarters can be and Eurasian ones do have a distress call that can bring in other hogs. I'll just avoid the situation and flatten them on the first shot.
 
Jason_W said:
The cool thing is that a big heavy bullet doesn't need to be moving all that fast in order to kill medium game. You don't have to hot rod it to the point that your shoulder dislocates and your retinas detach. A 400+ grain bullet loaded just right so that recoil is a pleasant, slow, steady push will do the job on deer.

Yes, you'll have to learn to deal with the round's trajectory, but that's part of the fun for a lot of us. I guess comparing the .45-70 to a flat pointy round is like comparing analogue photography to digital photography. Yes, digital is more convenient and user friendly, but analogue still has a certain organic warmth that makes the extra work worthwhile. Same for music. Digital modeling guitar amps are neat gadgets, but I'll take the sound of a vintage tube amp.

There's more to shooting and hunting than a race for the fastest bullets and highest tech designs.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of this which is why I often use my .50 cal. Ruger muzzleloader with sabots and .45 cal. bullets to cull whitetail does.
 
but analogue still has a certain organic warmth that makes the extra work worthwhile. Same for music. Digital modeling guitar amps are neat gadgets, but I'll take the sound of a vintage tube amp.
Click to expand...

Like I said - romance. I never said there was anything wrong with that. But let's call it what it is.
 
Merle1, I think there are still a few posts in this thread you forgot to like so here is one more for you!

Marlin4570-3.jpg
 
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