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Why isn't the 7mm-08 more popular?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Newtosavage, Dec 16, 2017.

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  1. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    9.5 is pretty standard. I think a 9 twist is a good idea for those who are going to play with the longer bullets but if you get into some of the 175-180's and some long copper ones then the 1:8 is a must
    that is what I did with the last one and the AR but otherwise not really needed. It is more like a curiosity and while I might use it a bit I could do as well with the 9 twist.

    This is one of the reasons for me...

    https://cuttingedgebullets.com/284-7mm-155gr-mth-match-tactical-hunting

    mth_j07_1.jpg
     
  2. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    I may ask for 9 in that case. Going to have a barrel made in either 7mm-08 or .280. Just haven't decided which yet. Want something that will play well with 139's and 160's.
     
  3. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    most people will do fine with the popular 9.5 twist that works with most popular hunting bullets.
    The cutting edge are a exception, they are expensive, the nice thing is they have a wider threshold for impact speeds
    and even with modest 155gr are still suitable for large elk. G1 coefficient is .620 that is not the best for
    7mm but still pretty darn good for a hunting bullet with that range.
    The standard twist will also work great with bergers in 168gr and the 162gr ELD that should be as good or even better than
    the previous Amax. The corrected BC advertised by Hornady is actually pretty uniform through all speed spectrum
    so it makes the 7mm an excellent choice for competition on a budget from score competition as well
    as practical and tactical matches.
    On average folks are very happy from kids/wife carbines to hunt with reduce loads to the most challenging tasks with full
    power heavy loads.
    What else can we say about the round? ... amazing ballistics, accuracy and versatility.
     
  4. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    I was texting with another member and remembered we had some load data in the reload section so do a search there for
    7mm-08 loads.
    Reloader 17 is a great powder for the 150-165gr bullets, that is no secret. R19, hunter and other slighter slower I would leave them for the longest barrels and longest
    bullets and long range.
    ...
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/7mm-08-and-rl-17-awesome.820985/
     
  5. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    Here is a compilation of high performance loads from several short action calibers people have contributed with in other thread.
    As you can see many amazing loads for elk, target, longrange etc... including the 7mm/08

    Thread...
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...formance-in-short-action-rifles.826843/page-4

    **Needless to say reload at your own discretion.
    barrels, chamber versions, brass, powder batches and atmospherics affect the pressure and performance.
    This is just for broad orientation and discussion and if you reload please check and double check with reloading and manufacturing data.
    Also let me know if I made any mistakes when copying some of the load info you provided or you see anything
    out of the ordinary that could be a typo/mistake.***



    [​IMG]


     
  6. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Thank you for the resource.

    Just happened to trip and fall into a stainless Tikka T3 in 7mm-08 at Cabelas yesterday, and at the right price. I couldn't lay off. Now I have one slow twist 7mm-08 (Stevens) for lighter bullets, and the faster twist Tikka for the heavies. Can't wait to find that magic load in it. ;)
     
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  7. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    That is very nice. I woudl find the max coal for each bullet on that new rifle based on the freebore or magazine, whichever comes first.
    BTW what is the max coal you can get in the tikka magazine? ..more or less... ...just curiosity.
     
  8. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Unfortunately, it's the mag @ 2.800" Even the Partitions with their blunt nose, can run 2.86" to the lands with Accubonds even longer at 2.95". Since all Tikka's are long action, I see a magazine and bolt stop mod in my future. ;)

    The fun thing about the Tikka T3's is that even on a "long" action and medium barrel contour, my rifle is still just 6 lbs. 14 oz. with a 3-9x40 Leupold scope on it. A guy just can't ask for more than that under $1K
     
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  9. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    I am not a huge fun of you-tube because of the amount of garbage that is in there, specially firearm "reviews".
    But once in a while one finds good stuff and folks who are entertaining and take the time to explain things
    reasonably well. A lot of people explain how to do things and push fashions but not many take the time
    to explain what and why. The how is normally the easiest part once you decided on your bullet.
    The bullet is what it matters the most. Everything else is built around that bullet and just part of the delivery method.

    I am not a huge advocate of the cheapest rifles but this project here demonstrate the potential of budget actions
    like the axis and the caliber he chooses. Also explains why the 7mm-08 and I thought it is simple enough, instructive
    and relevant to this thread. He screws up with the first scope but there is so much one can do with $500
    to build a rifle that can group consistently at long range. I hope you like it.

     
  10. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    Well that is an issue for the longer bullets but one can work around. Can the magazine be gated? One would hope all brands will give around the same coal than the AI/AW mags that has stablished itself like the standard.
    But yeah! ... one good reason to put a nice bottom metal also if you decide to upgrade the stock?
    Did you get it in wood furniture or polymer?
     
  11. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    Here a list of the popular SA magazines and their max coal ...

    upload_2017-12-29_20-35-39.png
     
  12. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I might hold off on grinding my bolt stop for a little while. The new T3x lites in 6.5 Creed are shipping with a longer short action mag that has an inside length of 2.98" vs the 2.84" of the normal short action mags. The new mags are marked "M+" and while they aren't being sold separately yet, one of the members on another forum runs Whittaker Guns and is working on getting some from Tikka to sell separately. All of my Tikkas have had fairly long throats, the longer mag would probably be a boon for any reloader interested in shooting longer bullets in their short action Tikka of any chambering.

    Hopefully I'm not breaking any forum rules, but if you want to see the difference in the mags, there is a picture about half way down this page:

    https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12158083/6
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  13. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Perfect! Thank you.
     
  14. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    Nosler published loads with 24" barrel in 260 Rem show 2830 FPS with 140 gr. bullets. I wonder how that would change your numbers.
     
  15. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    1stmarine, I was thinking a while back about putting a 7x57 barrel on one of my SA Savage 11's and the detachable (Axis style) mag could load up to 3.00" Not ideal for the 7x57 but certainly doable. However, these two 7mm-08's shoot so sweet, my 7x57 dreams may be behind me now. LOL If only Tikka had made the T3 in a 7x57... (sigh).

    Attempted to pull the bottom off my SA Tikka mag today to see how difficult it would be to grind 0.35" off the spacer, but it doesn't want to budge and I'm not gonna force it. I'll just use that mag for the 120's and 139's and have a 2nd for the 150-160's.

    Can't wait to get my hands on one of those new 6.5 CM "M" mags, and grind my bolt stop to mach. That should be just about IT for this gun, then I can put the project to bed.
     
  16. Caprock_1964

    Caprock_1964 Member

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    I've had every caliber mentioned and after all these years you know what my favorite is for deer? A Remington 722 picked up on a whim in 300 Sav. My story and sticking to it!:neener:
     
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  17. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    In the post after the picture on that link (fixed), the guy said he compared the bolt stops between other short action Tikkas and the new one and that they were the same. All you should have to do is pop in the longer mag and get to shooting, it sounds like the older mags just weren't optimized for maximum OAL.
     
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  18. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    I was just talking to my buddy about a 300 Sav. yesterday evening on our deer hunt. I had my 7mm-08 (and took a big doe with a clean 200 yard shot) and he had his typical .300 Win Mag (his favorite hunting rifle). He told me a story about him and his brother having a 300 Savage back in the day, and how that rifle "kicked like a mule." LOL I thought that was funny coming from a guy who shoots a .300 Win Mag now.
     
  19. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    I saw the same thing just now. That's awesome news. Can't wait to get the new mag for my 160 AB's to ride in! I had that specific bullet in mind when I bought that Tikka and couldn't be happier with how it shoots them. I mean, is there a better all-around hunting solution than a 7mm 160 grain Accubond?
     
  20. Offfhand

    Offfhand Member

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    Apparently, it isn’t widely known but the 7/08 was introduced primarily as a target cartridge, specifically, for Silhouette competition. It was mainly promoted by Wayne Leek a highly respected Remington engineer (Best know as “father of the 1100” shotgun.) who got into silhouette after his retirement and wanted a caliber with a ballistic advantage over the .308, which was the most used silhouette round at that time, and hopefully might have somewhat less recoil. Because of Wayne’s influence the first two rifles introduced in 7/08 caliber were the M-700 with varmint contour barrel and the M-788. Varmint model 700’s in .308 had been a popular choice for many Silhouette shooters so it was logical to assume the same popularity would carry over to same rifle in 7/08 caliber. Likewise, a number of high scoring shooters had been successful with the 788 in .308 caliber, which had a proven reputation for better accuracy than its lower price would indicate, and also because of its quick lock time, considered an advantage in offhand shooting. But sadly for Wayne, his pet project hit the rocks soon after launch. The first reason being that Remington did not offer 7/08 target grade ammo but instead released a 140 grain hunting load that proved so dismally inaccurate that it was the first time I ever heard of a major manufacturer publicly apologizing for poor performance and offering replacement. (Their excuse was that the inaccurate bullets were actually made by Hornady.) But this should have been of little concern to HP Silhouette shooters who typically reloaded their ammo anyway, with Sierra’s 168 grain .308 Match King bullet being the overwhelming favorite. Especially for the long-distance turkey and sheep stages. Sierra also made a superb 168 grain 7mm MK, which proved accurate in the 7/08 (Certainly in my new 7/08 700 Varmint) but recoil was the same with either caliber and the slight numerical ballistic advantage of the 7mm didn’t justify switching calibers. So the 7/08 never caught on with silhouette shooters (same with NRA HP bullseye shooters) and Remington sold so few of those varmint rifles in 7/08 that they were discontinued and now considered rare collector’s items. (I still have mine, shown in attached photo.) The paradox of the 7/08’s dismal beginning is that when Remington introduced the .260 it was an immediate success with target shooters and soon dominated silhouette and HP shooting. So we have to wonder if Remington had introduced the .260 first would the 7/08 have ever existed? DSC_0017.JPG DSC_0022.JPG
     
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  21. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    I don't think it would and published data is just a reference and not 100% accurate.
    For now I have retired the 260 in an effort to consolidate and reduce caliber footprint that was getting crazy.
    Amazing round tough.
     
  22. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    The inexpensive axis is actually a great platform to build a pretty decent budget rifle. The magazines give up to 3.2" that is the longest of all the magazines so for special
    projects are awesome and the actions are very strong regardless of their "budget" gun status.
    The nice thing is that share the same bolt heads and barrels as the Savage 10,11 so that makes them pretty versatile and flexible to swap barrels like between seasons or
    for whatever projects.
    But you can do that with a number of actions. You have barrel nuts for the remington and the ruger will work on the tikka and amazing win 70 action.
    I just love the floating, swapable bolt head of savage that for wildcatters gives huge flexibility.
    And lets be honest the savage can shoot too.


    *note: For the tikka to convert to barrel nut I suggest to cut the receiver back to remove those angles in the corner and in the case of a re-barreling one can use a wider section after the shank
    and make it beefier and stronger than the factory. It doesn't really impact anything. For the axis I would also cut the action back, make it flush with the axis recoil lug cut and then use
    a regular savage 10 recoil lug that is going to be stronger. also not a huge thing but anyone exploring other calibers and uses can consider this when building from these actions.
    A good gunsmith is going to propose these and other ideas.
     
  23. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    The thing is the "kicking like a mule" is all relative and subjective to perception because it depends on so many factors like the weight of the rifle, weight distribution, ergonomics, etc..
    So a crude and light 300 savage wiht heavy loads can in fact feel uncomfortable while a heavier win mag with the right setup might feel less violent and more like a push.
    I have seen people struggling with 308 light rifles because the poor setup, even a mossberg patriot from a hunter at the local range literally come apart from the stock.
    Once folks get an understanding of the principals involved then it is easier to go back and do some adjustments, perhaps some upgrades and that should greatly
    enhance the experience. Recoil should be embraced and work with the gun vs. just running away from it. One needs to understand recoil is a trade off so
    many times big recoil means lots of power and momentum. Another question is that is always needed and possibly not for having fun and long sessions of target shooting so
    in that case one might have a lot more fun with a 22 to 7mm bore caliber w/o getting into very heavy loads of 7mm.
     
  24. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Yes sir they sure can. Every single Savage I've owned, including the two I have now, are sub-MOA with zero tinkering and frankly not as much care as they deserve.

    Re: kick, I suspect my friend and his brother were young and slight, and the rifle probably (like many in those days) had NO recoil pad. I remember back in '85 when I got my pre-64 Winchester 94 for Christmas, that think kicked like a mule to me. But I was probably 140 lbs. soaking wet and it had a steel butt plate and weighed 6 1/2 lbs.
     
  25. 1stmarine

    1stmarine Member

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    160gr accubond are great bullets. 120gr TTSX can be pushed at 270 winchester speeds (3100fps) so those are brutal for white tail and hogs too and very flat shooting.
    It really depends on what you want to do.
     
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