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Why join the military?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Maser, Jun 11, 2006.

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  1. Maser

    Maser member

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    First of all I mean no disrespect for anyone serving or who has served. A friend of mine asked a similar question like this over at glocktalk and well, since the immature members of that site didn't flame him, then i'm sure the mature class of members here will not flame me either.

    My question is that how come anyone who has served in the military feels like anyone else who has just turned 18 has to also. I mean there's nothing wrong with it. It's an honorable thing and everything, but most people getting out of high school want to go to collage to get good money making careers. I understand that the military pays for collage, but lots of high school graduates already have a good collage fund saved up from all their years in school. I don't like the idea of military recruiters hanging around high school graduations and then trying to pressure new grads to join the military and then if they say no then the recruiters try to make them feel bad saying that they are turing their backs on their country or that they are afraid or stuff like that. Don't try and deny that it happens because it really does. Same thing goes with posting on gun forums. If you say you don't want to join the military then everyone comes down all hard on you and tries to make you feel like a lowlife.

    As far as I go. I am NOT joining the military EVER. I can't say the same for my little brother or my son, but I hope they don't join either. Here's my reasons. It has nothing to do with being anti American or that I don't want to serve my country or anything like that. Or even that i'm scared because I have been through a lot in my life so far and I fear nothing except my maker (God). My reason for not joining is the simple fact of my son. Before he came along I most likely would have joined the military, but after Andy was born, I wanted to do anything in my power to be with him as much as I can. I'm sorry to all you military guys defending this great country, but me joining is just too great of a gamble in my life. Even if there was a 100% garentee that I wouldn't get killed in combat I still wouldn't join now. My son is the most important person in my life and I am NOT going to miss any day of him growing up.

    There, I hope this clears everything up and lets you all know that i'm not a coward or don't care about my country or the other fine men and women who have fought and/or died for this great country.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2006
  2. atlctyslkr

    atlctyslkr Member

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    You have made alot of generalizations in your post. While you make some good points, you're probably going to get ripped. I served but I don't carry that chip on my shoulder, it's something I did when I was younger and it's over now.
     
  3. Dave Rishar

    Dave Rishar Member

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    Not everyone who has served, or is still serving, thinks that service should be mandatory. I certainly don't. We have a volunteer military. If you don't feel like volunteering, don't. There's no need to explain why.
     
  4. Maser

    Maser member

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    Oh I don't mind the fact that i'm going to get ripped. I just wanted to give valid reasons for my own self not joining. All i'm asking is that my decission gets respected and that nobody tries to pressure me into doing otherwise. I don't mind hearing arguments about it or give me valid reasons for joining, but please make sensible comments and not a bunch of BS saying i'm stabbing my country in the back. If that was the case then I wouldn't salute the US flag everyday and include this great country in my prayers everynight before bed.
     
  5. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

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    I served because at the time I enlisted I felt as if I was out of options. During my service, I learned a lot about myself and about the options I really had (and have). I gained a significant respect for the military, and I learned to recognize its shortcomings for what they are. I elected to NOT re-up, but am glad for having done a stint.

    I now have three kids. If any of them told me that they were seriously contemplating a stint or a career in the military, I'd not try to talk them into it nor out of it. I understand why it would be of interest.
     
  6. YellowLab

    YellowLab member

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    Because service will get you better opportunites MOST of the time.

    I've gotten jobs over non-vets because, well, I was a vet. Just about every state will have 'Veterans Preferance' on Civil Service exams (I scored 113 on my Civil Service test... was ranked 1 out of 1200+ applicants, Veterans preferance was +10 points added to the final score).

    I go to interviews and I make sure that I always put my Navy service on the app, even though it may not be in 'chronological' order.

    When it comes my time to do the hiring, all things considered, the Vet get the nod over a non-vet. Why? Because an Honerable Discharge says something about a person character... and while you are hiring a person for thier skills, character (trustworthyness, initiative etc) means A LOT. Sure you can be a dirtbag with an Honerable Discharge... but there are exception to EVERY rule.
     
  7. Lebben-B

    Lebben-B Member

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    What's the point of sending an infantryman to Ft S
    "A pity that youth is wasted on the young"

    - George Bernard Shaw
     
  8. warriorsociologist

    warriorsociologist Member

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    Are you sincerely looking for "reasons someone else would join" or merely looking for a place to post what you didn't?

    Of course there are lots of ways to serve...and many new fathers & mothers choose to join up anyway and/or don't whine when deployed (if already in). I remember my last deployment news hit me 1 week before I was supposed to finish my PhD exams (I was in the reserve at the time) and not only did I have to wait 'till I got back to continue working on it...and be away from wife, take a pay-cut, yadda-yadda... I NEVER complained. Sure, the timing royally sucked...but I reasoned that I joined knowing this was part of the deal... I had fully taken advantage of the GI Bill and such for almost 9 years by then & now it was my turn to repay my end of the bargain...that's all. Hell, when I got back to find my PhD committee were all either working at new institutions or retired which forcing me to change programs/sell house & move me & wife across the country & start my program mostly over at the U that my committee chair had relocated (adding 2+ years) - did I grumble a bit at my bad luck...sure. Did I bitch and moan "poor me, damn the government for messing up my life" to anyone else...hell no. Not then, not ever. In fact, this is actually one of the first times I have laid this all out and it's been over 2 years since I have been back.

    My point is, if you are compelled to serve your country, like I was and many of us here were, you can do it in the military or elsewhere. Does it involve personal hardship? Sure – “freedom isn’t free” – right? If your question is asked the right way, this thread should generate some good replies...but if you start down the path you took on SnipersHide, it may not.
     
  9. wingnutx

    wingnutx Member

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    I get a lot of satisfaction out of being the 'thin red line'.

    Somebody has to do it, might as well be me.

    Same reason I do EMT work on the civilian side.

    I probably read too much Heinlein as a lad. (as if that is possible)
     
  10. warriorsociologist

    warriorsociologist Member

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    I guess your second post answered this before I hit "send" on mine.
    Ok then. Like someone said above....if you don't want to join...don't. If it bothers you that some end up giving you a hard time for it, well, get a thicker skin. :) I think you are pretty self-assured for someone you age and you shouldn't worry too much about what others think here. This is afterall "only the internet" - right?
     
  11. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    I don't fault you one bit for wanting to spend time with your family. I've watched MANY fellow Marines' marriages fail; whether the service contributed, who can tell?


    I am AGAINST mandatory service, 100%. It DOES NOT make people better. Good people join the military voluntarily, and good people benefit from it by virtue of being good people. Scum doesn't. Compulsory service destroys anything, as people forced into it don't want to be there, and rightfully feel like slaves. Anytime its brought up in front of me, I denounce it.


    I joined for personal reasons. I don't mention it in job interviews to gain points. I keep it to myself. My friends know about my past, but to me, its my past, its mostly an afterthought.
     
  12. wingnutx

    wingnutx Member

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    I am also against mandatory conscription, fwiw.
     
  13. Mauserguy

    Mauserguy Member

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    I never served in the military, but I have known many people who have. It is a personal decision that springs from many areas- love of country, college money, desire to have a little adventure, to gain leadership skills and discipline or to simply get a start in life. There are lots of valid reasons to join the military, and if you decide not to do so, okay, that's your decision.

    Regarding barring recruiters from schools, well, that smacks of restricting free speach. I don't like that.
    Mauserguy
     
  14. Maser

    Maser member

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    See, the problem is that I have a very carismatic attitude and I do care a lot about my image. If I feel that my image is being threatened either in real life or in cyber space I will defend it at all costs. Being my age and not technically a man yet and being called a coward will definatly hit below the belt. I feel that giving a good reason as to why I am or am not doing something and setting the record straight is a courteous thing to do.
     
  15. mikeb3185

    mikeb3185 Member

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    iam 22 married (my wife is in too) and have been serving for 4.5 years, in the air force. and i truly believe the military s not for everyone. i have said "that guy needs basic" but that is my way of saying that they need some help in how to act. by no means is the military for everyone or a fix-all. so if you belive it is not for you, then its not period
     
  16. strambo

    strambo Member

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    Thankfully, we live in a country with vast resources so we don't need you. Don't sweat it, no explanation necessary.

    Now, if the entire population shared your sentiments (not implying they're bad/wrong) we'd be in trouble.
     
  17. Zen21Tao

    Zen21Tao Member

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    I think that most who have served in the military (myself included) would say that military service offers valuable life lessons but that it is an undertaking that should be chosen not required.

    I personally feel that money for college should never be a reason for joining the military. The military deserves better than losers that slacked off in school so much that the military is the only way they can find to pay for a college. For those that work hard and excell in school there are grants and scholarships available. For everone else there are student loans.

    The number one reason, in my opinion, to serve in the military is out of a patriotic desire to serve the country. It infuriates me to see those that join the military for college money or an extra weekend pay check whine like a little girl when they are called up to go serve during war time.

    I don't disagree with recruiters being allowed on school campuses but I do agree that they shouldn't be trying to pressure someone to join. In fact, I don't even think that they should be advertising the benefits that come from military service (e.g. college fund). They should sit back and wait for the students that come to them and ingrain in them that military service should only be done for patriotic reasons. If they wan't college money they should get grants, earn scholarships, or take out loans. If they want a trade they should go to a trade school. If they want an extra paycheck learn to flip burgers.

    No one should come down on anyone for not serving in the military. The military isn't for everybody. In fact, as I said before, I think that many of the problems within the military are the result of the wrong types of people serving for the wrong types of reasons.
     
  18. Edmond

    Edmond Member

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    No need to explain to us. Some people like Ford while other like Chevy. It's all your thing.

    Whatever you end up doing, someone is going to disagree. Like some of the guys I know who were in the military. Some guys look down on them because they've never seen combat. WTH? That doesn't make any sense at all. To me, I consider you military if you graduate. Kind of like college. As long as you see something through from beginning to end, I think you've done quite well.

    I don't think employers will look at your military history to see if you've fought, where you've fought and how many people you've plugged. I think they'd like to see that you had the discipline and determination to see something through. Seeing something through over a period of time like that, whether it be college or military, should be something that you should be proud of.

    As for me, I am a college grad, I'm only 26 and I haven't ruled out OCS. If I do it, it'll be for college money and to learn leadership skills.
     
  19. badgerw

    badgerw Member

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    Maser and Shakespear

    I spent 25 years in the Army and Army Reserve. Some of it sucked (I refer to those times as "adventures") and most of it was great.

    I have a son (17), a daughter (11), and am in the process of adopting my two stepdaughters (12 and 6). My wife and I had a son last year who died suddenly.

    I've had the question asked of me, "Would you send your son/daughter to [insert current unpleasant location]?" Well, I can't send them, as this is an all-volunteer military.

    But I think the realk question is, "If not my son/daughter, then whose?"

    If not me, then who?

    I would give up my life for my children. Easy choice. Being willing to do the same for something bigger than yourself takes a bit more.

    Perhaps you'd do well to read Henry V's speech to his men on the eve of Agincourt.

    I personally would be ashamed to expect someone to risk their life on my behalf, while I was unwilling to do the same.

    Figure it out.

    Bill
     
  20. KC&97TA

    KC&97TA Member

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    I joined the Marine Corps in Sept 1998 at the beginning of my Sr year, I went to Boot Camp in Aug 1999 and never looked back. I rarely keep in touch with any friends I had in high school, my family is a telephone call away, some times they don't hear from me for months at a time. I've gained Friends that will last a life time. How my marrage continues to work out I do not know, maybe it's because my wife is active duty or maybe it is that we are truely sole mates or some crazy thing they call love, or maybe we're just crazy enough to make it all work out.

    The best of times have been the worst of times; battered and bloody, looking for an American Cigaret only to bump into Reporters that don't smoke cause it's bad for your health(like the city of Ramadii is good for anything), takeing bets on who will shoot at you next, being away from home with 42 of your men, plus a couple of Corps Man, who you've come so close to, that you know thier wifes, kids, girlfriends, some of thier parents, when they "do a #2 durring the day", what thier tatoos mean, thier grades in highschool, knowing that each day you're in harms way, and each day, maybe the day I have to zip one of these men up in a bag. Some civilians talk about, "how hard things are"... thier problems are usally easier to digest than a months worth of MRE's.

    As far as dieing goes... I have shrapenal in 6 areas of my body; been blown up by 2 IED's, 1 RPG, had way too many close calls with Rockets and mortars, Tactical Vehicle accidents and been shot at more times than I could ever count... I've even had close calls with some of my own demo. If God Wants me, He knows were to find me. I'm not down for dieing for my country, I'm in it to kill for my country.

    I don't know when I'll leave the Corps, not till after Jan 2010 with this last enlistment... I wear what I've earned right thier on my sleave, Purple Heart Licence Plates and an attitude, that I've "been there". I feel that anyone who is a Veteran of a Foreign War, deserves a parking spot up front and a discount on every meal. I don't even have to say were this country would be with out it's brave men, protesting and talking only make it so far, those men who have picked up arms, the ones lucky enough or well trained enough to make it back home, have shapped this country.

    Many men join, "to serve thier country" what ever that means... you soon learn that you do it for the men; in charge of you, your men below you, and any man who takes a fire position in your pause. You even do it for the pansy's that have more time in service/grade than you that have been able to scam out of every Iraq deployment. Being GI Joe takes alot out of a man, and I'll tell you that the temper gets short for the civilians who "don't understand". What those who have served have earned and been given, isn't something that can not be bought for any price.

    Those Recruiters have a hard job, and high school kids are the best ones to enlist; The Very Best, Put them in Boot Camp at 18, they're out at 22 and ont with thier lives. War is a young mans game, you have to move quick, shoot quick, think quick, put some weight on your back and not be tied down to drama back home. Those High Schools and Colleges that object to the Recruiters and ROTC, they can become private schools or welcome the recruiters with fake smiles. I'm all for makeing everyone serve in one way or another, those who don't want to join the "Active Duty Regular" should be part of thier "States National Guard". The Military has alot to offer, besides Being GI Joe. "If you haven't been there you wouldn't understand", sums up everything. What better way to prepare for SHTF or RAHOWA than the US Military Training.

    But your " WHY? "... was never a question to some of us... our " WHY " is "WHY? do it for men who ask, WHY?"
     
  21. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    well , let me start by saying , good for you . You are not supposed to join the military, you have a job to do here. I can't say what recruiters you have been listening to, so i will say if you have heard them talking to peeps like that , you should turn them in. However, i am going to say i doubt that part of your story, it is just something you heard somewhere. From what I have been reading , all branches of military have been hitting their recruiting goals, or darn near, and it has allways been that way, except during Carter, and Clinton.
    I am ex military, and wouldn't trade my service for anything, in fact i have been thinking of going "over there" in a private contractor role. Why you may ask? Because of something you may not understand, but some people have been born with a gift of help. Some people are gifted for sports , music, singing, acting. Look at the Chunky Chicks, and Tiger woods. They were allready practicing their craft at a very young age.
    The bible calls this gift, and describes these positions, such as doctors, nurses, civil servants, police, and more importantly, soldiers. In both old and new testaments , the bible proudly describes these folks, that this is someting they are called to , no different than preachers, prophets, evangelists, teachers, and ministers. There is a verse that i will paraphrase," Beware that you do not lay a hand on any of these soldiers CALLED BY MY NAME, for they carry the sword and the word of truth in their hearts. King David was called by God and others "a man after My own heart." Why? it is because from the time David was a 13 year old boy, his goal was to remove evil from out of the land, Same goal as our Father's.
    I am sure you know people in your own lifetime, that just felt the need to serve, to volunteer, help out community services, help food kitchens, churches, etc. this is the gift of Helps.
    but it is the folks called to military service, who have it in their hearts, and go, that are extra special to God. they are mentioned freely in the old and new testaments.
    If you are not a God fearing man, then let me paraphrase a small speech made by a General, made sometime ago, not sure when it was, and I think the person is not attributed.
    "Throughout every generation, there are young men and women who put on the uniform, and perform their call to service. I thank God for those young people, to do what most will never do , they do willingly, they are serving their country and they are glad to go. Every generation has this group of young folks , and I thank Him daily for it, and I fear the day, for myself and this country , that a generation comes up that is not called to service, for that will be the ruin of our military, and the end of our country."
    My wish for you sir, is to install fine values in your sons, and if they decide to join the military, HONESTLY teach them the pro's and cons of service, get them to talk to veterans, but don't try to talk them out of it, if you see it is their true desire, not just something they are thinking might be cool to do.
    I wish I could be more eloquent im my desire to confer to you why people join, I can explain on a cerebral , mental level, about math, electricity, logic, etc., and I love mathematics, and physics, truly. But this is more from the heart, and it cannot be done simply with x's and o's and numbers, facts and logic. Some people are called , some know Who Is; calling them, some do not, but just know that is what they are supposed to do.
     
  22. Olys45

    Olys45 Member

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    From the standpoint of a former Air Force Recruiter all I can say is that I didn't "pressure" anybody to join.
    With some people you have to hound them and try to corner them to get a straight answer out of them and that is were we get a bad rap on the whole deal. I never once "pressured" somebody that was not interested, or showed an interest. I always had a problem with somebody that asked for information and/or came in for an appointment, then never had the guts to tell me that they were not interested. I wasted a lot of time trying to get a straight answer out of them. A simple, "No thanks, I changed my mind" would've helped!

    The other group that I hated to deal with was the clowns that entered the Delayed Enlistment Program, took a job and then deicded not to leave for Basic. 99% of them are chumps and wimps, a total waste of time. The other miniscule percentage had a vaild excuse and I didn't mind to see them go.

    As for promoting the college/voc training, it is a fact and some people need that brought to their attention. With the state of the "most" teachers/counselors in the high schools today we need to advertise this fact. Why should somebody take out huge loans when they can have Uncle Sam help them out? It is not a handout, but a reward.
    Depending on the job, I could set somebody up with the same exact training, real life experience and they could come away with a A.A.S. degree with a little bit of extra work on their part. Just for serving thier country for 4 years. How many people on the outside of the Air Force would know that?
     
  23. Mauserguy

    Mauserguy Member

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    I may be attacked for this statement, but I will say it. There has bee a lot of talk about college in this thread. I personally have seven years under my belt, but I have to say that most of the people coming out of college are worthless. The military veterans that my company has hired have, however, never failed to perform acceptably.

    Vets may not be well polished, and they may not have in depth knowledge of "business theory", but they know how to work hard without complaints. I'm sure that you can find a loser in any group, but in my experience, most college grads are worthless, vets, however, know how to try hard.
    Mauserguy
     
  24. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Maser,
    I really can't see why you brought up the subject at all.

    I am against conscription and for Universal Military Training

    I wanted to join, I did, spent 26 years active duty. Lived through it even though I didn't always enjoy it. It was good for me and for America and for several hundred sons and daughters of Americans that I was able influence in a positive way and 2 that I saved.

    If you don't want to join, don't. We don't have room for folks that want something other than to defend the nation in an active way.
    Oh, don't expect anyone to have much respect for your opinion on things military.

    Sam
     
  25. warriorsociologist

    warriorsociologist Member

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    Sounds good. I am only suggesting that if the "image" others have of you seems to not match the one you have for your self...you may have to learn to shrug it off and be confident enough to not worry about it or think hard about whether or not the "other(s) have a valid point. Charisma has often more to do with what others see in you than what you see in yourself though (the later is “confidence” and it is often the by-product of the former)…though, you seem to “have you head screwed on right” based on some of the posts I have seen you make in times past, so it looks like you have come a long way in a short period of time. Remember that you will never change the minds of some folks...and you probably shouldn't care if you do. Also (not to sound “preachy – as this is already longer than I had planned) remember that your world view is the product of your life experience & learning...it will likely continuously evolve and change and you move through life.

    I guess what I am saying to you is if someone calls you a coward for not joining the military, I doubt what you have posted will change their tune. Such simple-mindedness is rarely amenable to reason. If your reasons are good enough for you, then that should be enough for you. You can't win over everyone...and trying to do so "at all costs" isn't likely a worthwhile endeavor. I think more people respect quiet self-assurance than loud boastfullness by a loud margin. Now, go take care of that fine family of yours. :)

    Take care.
     
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