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Why no 32 Super Auto?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by bersaguy, Aug 27, 2021.

  1. Monac

    Monac Member

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    No, at least nothing that ever got close to production that I know of. There are always obscure prototypes lurking around, so I'm not going to be more definite than that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  2. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    Pfft, you don't see a future in .32 caliber handguns at all.

    Germany wasn't alone in leaving behind that old 19th Century bottleneck for their sidearms as the Soviets did the same with the Tokarev, however that seemed to be more driven by wanting a cheaper to make and smaller/lighter sidearm in the Makarov and not a failure of performance of the 7.62x25. Why both chose something in the 9mm instead of 8mm IDK, you'd think a .32 in the Makarov would have been even smaller, lighter, cheaper, etc. than the 9x18 and with hardball ammo there's effectively no difference in performance.

    But they didn't exactly have the stuff we have now to know that in the 1930s and 40s.
     
  3. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    Last I checked .32 centerfire is a lot more reliable than .22 rimfire, but you raise a point that people don't want to acknowledge for some reason in terms of choosing a .22 over a .32 and that's price, more so the ammo than the guns. When you could buy 500 rds of .22 for $25 vs 100 rounds of .32 for the same amount of money people would rather have the less reliable, less effective caliber because it's cheaper or if they are going to spend more money on ammo they want the most bang for their buck and if it's bigger, like .380 is compared to .32, then it's of course "better."

    I won't bring up 9mm in the discussion, people like to stretch the truth and say that some 9mm's are "almost as small as .380's" and they're not. People buy the .380s today not because they're as small as a 9mm, but because they're smaller.
     
  4. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    You're pretty much asking for a .327 in a semi auto if you want a 115gr going 1300 fps. Further, do you know how much blast and flash that's going to be out of a short barrel? The closest thing that comes to this today is the Tokarev and that's only an 85gr bullet, but it's going 1500+ fps out of a 5 inch barrel.

    I mean, I agree it would be great to have a .32 that's got more oompf than the 32 ACP, but the semi auto equivalent to .327 isn't it. What would be is something equivalent to .32 H&R Mag, which is exactly what the .32 NAA is in terms of performance.
     
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  5. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    Taurus is still making a medium-framed revolver with adjustable sights in 32 S&W long, FWIW. I don't think they're imported to this country much, but I see them NiB occasionally.

    I also used to have a small-framed Taurus in 32 H&R magnum, which was unfortunately my only Taurus that never would run correctly.

    I don' think that a super 32acp would matter. It wouldn't give you significantly more shots than a 380 in the same pistol.

    Some kind of super duper 25 caliber would be the thing. That magazine would hold a lotta rounds. Kinda somewhere between 25acp and 223 Remington?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  6. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    I didn't realize that's where 327mag was at in ballistics. I have some 115 9mm Gold Dots that move out at 1260fps. So, yeah I suppose it would need to be either lighter or slower than that. So, really, looks like I just want something chambered for 8mm Roth Steyr. And a hellcat loaded with 8x19 as opposed to 9x19 would realistically only net, what, 2 maybe 3 extra rounds. Ahhh, stupid physics...always ruining a good time....pfffffft....don't even get me started on gravity....
     
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  7. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    Out of a 3 inch barrel, yeah, which I assume is what you would want this .32 Super Auto to have and not the usual 4 or 5 inch barrel.
     
  8. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    It would be another compromise in a world of compromises. IMHO you should be able to get 110/115gr bullets to 1150/1200 fps without nuclear pressure levels. In a Hellcat size gun it makes sense for someone who has trouble controlling +p 9mm in a Hellcat size gun.
     
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  9. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    7.5 FK BRNO?

     
  10. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Did the Germans ever use 7.65 at all? Their first use of Lugers I know of was the 1904 Navy 9mm.
     
  11. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    There are like five people on this forum who KEEP bringing up 32 Super. There are four or five more on a competing forum that I won’t mention in here, but the initials of which are “GlockTalk.”

    I am one of those people.


    You write:

    “32 auto the size of a hellcat or p365 with 14-15rd flush and 16-17rd extended pinky really sell vs. Smaller 380 or larger 9mm?”

    everything you wrote is true, except for one thing:

    “vs.”

    (ie vs 9mm etc)

    where’s the versus?

    Already owning a 9mm doesn’t send a signal to the brain to stop buying guns. On the contrary, guns such as the Hellcat trigger the firearms center of the amygdaloid process to release

    gun buying

    hormones into the bloodstream.

    After you already had your 9 mm bought and lubed up and you were all good to go, did you ever, ever buy another firearm after that?

    Another angle: it’s 2017 and Kimber drops the brand new…. Kimber snub nose revolver !!

    does it succeed?

    It’s 2016 and Chiappa drops the brand new…. Chiappa sun nose revolver!!

    does it succeed?

    Gun buying hormones are powerful.

    The 16-round plastic microcompact 32 Super, if it worked as imagined, would sell fast.
     
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  12. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    Totally.

    In my 32 Super dreams, the R and D team sets 100/1000/222 as the goal: 100g at 1000ft/sec for muzzle energy of 222 ft lbs.

    Just a hair more energy than 380, and preserves the “fun gun” traits you’d lose with a high pressure screamer.
     
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  13. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    upload_2021-8-29_14-26-47.jpeg
     
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  14. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    Maybe, but not with that moniker.
    I, will be shooting a 32 Super, out of its proper 1911 host.;)
    And with a longer case length of 22mm to avoid any confusion.
    I don’t get sillymeters. Is that different enough? Slang could be the 32 Double Deuce. Getting your hands on some,…never mind, let’s end that.:D

    Regardless, I’m not shooting a 32 French. It’s not about what is or has been, or is just like, but what might be, what could be.
    With a 100grn bullet there would be a good deal of neck for tension, enough case capacity to make 1000fps, and a single stack magazine in a polymer striker pistol is elongated in the proper dimension for my perfect pistol to hand fit.:p
    And a double or stack-and-half magazine would be perfect for different size classes. Hopefully the 1.5 is the same size as a government model 1911. Holding 18+1 with a flush mag.




    I have only so much money and time! I want it all!
    Someday I will build this mutant thing and be in heaven!
    (Hopefully before I’m actually there…:))
     
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  15. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    What if it was labeled ".32pedersen" ? [:)]

    No lie, physics is a meanie.
    Hmm, double stack of 12 is probably 5x5 necking to two at the top, so, that's eight increments of 1mm. Oops looks like you only get 1 more 8x19 over 9x19.
    Harumph.
    So, maybe "the answer" is the other way: 7x20. Eight increments of 2mm is 16mm, so, maybe plus two or three rounds. But, you'd have a hard time getting anything much bigger than 70-80 gr up to 1000fps in those dimensions. Hmm, maybe you could "break" 100gr in a 22 or 23mm long case and still have room for powder to get you to a grand or 1100 fps.
    Dunno. Physics is a meanie. Pushed me down at recess and dun stole my lunch money.
     
  16. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    Despite the challenges, I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor. I'd be a customer. I think it should first be introduced in a 1911 platform with the 32 Super Auto moniker. Once that catches on, bring on the compact and micro poly guns. I'd place my order for that. And while I'm ordering some fantasy calibers, I'd also like to place an order for a Mossberg Retrograde 590, with a 26" barrel, chambered for 16ga Magnum 3" shells. Oh, and a Mini 30, walnut stock, chambered for 30 Carbine...that one could actually be done:)
     
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  17. DarkswordDX

    DarkswordDX Member

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    >Calling it .32 Super Auto when ".32 Automag" rolls off the tongue so much better.

    I like this idea, fwiw. Has anyone attempted a reliable quad-stack magazine in a pistol yet? Because the thought of a Glock 19 sized pistol holding 40+ rounds of this is stimulating.
     
  18. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    That's a magazine that s going to want to be 34-36mm wide--or 1.41" at 36mm.
    Basically, you'd have a magazine as thick as a 2x2, which is not going to suggest an easy grip dimension.

    The other issue with quads is that they take the neck constriction problem of double-stack, single-feed, and double it. A mag loader is no longer optional, but mandatory. And, the tapered neck really reduces capacity at the top while being ugly to load.

    If you put the taper below the grip that might work, but, it would probably be as bulky as a 32 round stick mag already is.
     
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  19. Archie

    Archie Member

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    ALL the .32 caliber handguns have the same problem. The bullets are too light to get any real momentum and putting them into anything else with a locked breech negates the size and weight that makes .32 ACP handy.

    Magically put a 'Super .32' in a locked breech pistol the size of a model M or 1903 Pocket Hammerless or perhaps a S&W (auto) M&P. Ideally a muzzle velocity of 1200 fps. (That's about 800 fps less than the .30 Carbine.) That will really be fun to shoot. (You go first.) Anything realistically to pep up the .32 caliber size results in either something along the lines of a .30 Carbine or .32-20.

    It may appeal to those who think 'energy' (velocity based kinetic energy) is the end all and be all will probably rejoice until it gets used. By careful editing of information, it will appear to be death on deer and feral hogs but has a weak track record.

    I remember some years ago the late Jeff Cooper reported on a test cartridge and pistol out of Europe. Supposedly fired a .25 caliber bullet (weight unspecified) at 2500 fps. Wowzers! I've never heard of it since.
     
  20. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    There has to be some reason handguns settled on .3125 for such a long time. I’m wondering if it was simply a more effective cartridge back when the average man was 130 pounds. Now that 200 pounds is more common, things have settled on 9mm
     
  21. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Without question there is a reason. I'm not sure I know it all, but there are three - to me - rather obvious factors:
    The .32 ACP was one of the earliest smokeless powder cartridges available. (There were .32 revolver cartridges prior, mostly black powder.) So the .32 ACP (the first cartridge of J. M. Browning, by the way) was not just 'new and novel', but cleaner and simpler than many of the previous handguns. I rather think most folks recognized .45 Colt was a better arm as a defensive means, but it was heavy and smokey and such.
    Also, anti-infection drugs did not exist until the Second World War era. So every wound was potentially fatal.
    The .32 ACP was quite small and light compared to extant guns of the era and previous.

    As a bonus, perhaps folks would shoot seriously at that time. Not could, but were ready and willing to defend hearth and kindred.
     
  22. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

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    I had one of the French 1935 pistols. It was given to me with out a mag or ammo. After looking at gun shows a couple of years I finally found a magazine. More years looking I never found any ammo and I sure wanted to shoot that gun. I finally sold it to someone at the GS for $50 and was glad to see it gone from my life.

    I for one don't yearn for a 32 Super. I just wish Ruger would make an LCP in 32acp. When Ruger announced they coming out with a new gun I had my fingers crossed it was a 32 LCP. Nope. A double stack LCP 380. Oh well, maybe next time.
     
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  23. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

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    The Kel Tec .32 is a locked breech and I believe is the lightest .32 semi auto pistol ever made, if not lightest semi auto pistol ever.

    The problem that .32 ACP has is only with hollow points and the bullets either not expanding due to poor design or lack of velocity and when they do expand not penetrating enough. Solid bullets don't have the penetration problem that hollow points do, so there's a reason many use FMJ in .32 ACP. I would think the Lehigh Xtreme whatever would be better given it's not a round projectile it should do more damage internally.

    Maybe with regard to the .327, but for a semi auto the .32 NAA would give you that ideal 1200 fps and do it with an 85 grain bullet, but it would have to come out of a 5 inch barrel to do it. Out of a 3 inch barrel it'd be right around 1000 fps and that's enough to get expansion, maybe not 50% more, but close to it and really you don't want a ton of expansion with .32 because it saps penetration.

    The answer is .32 NAA, people just can't seem to accept it because it's a bottlenecked .380 and they can't get that precious extra capacity in the magazine.
     
  24. golden

    golden Member

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    BERSAGUY,

    At the end of the 19th century, their was a number of powerful .30/.32/7.62 and 7.63 mm rounds developed for the MAUSER 96 broomhandle and LUGER pistols. Later the FRENCH adopted a "LONG" .32ACP and later replaced it with the 9m.m. PARABELLUM. The RUSSIAN'S went with the 7.63 TORKAREV round and kept it till the developed the much less powerful 9m.m. MAKAROV round and pistol.
    So their have been quite a few powerful or "SUPER" versions of the .32ACP, but I do not see any of them selling past the surplus gun market.

    If you want a really small semi-auto, you go to the .32ACP. If you want a powerful round, you really have to go to a bigger gun, chambered for a least the .380ACP..

    If you follow COLT'S lead and make a .32 Super, you need to almost certainly redesign the gun you are using in .32ACP or go to a bigger gun and that may conflict with going to a small gun like the .32ACP in the first place.

    If you want .32 Super performance, get a BERETTA 81 or CZ 83 in .32ACP and load some of the "boutique" ammo company's ammunition. COR BON makes a hot .32ACP load. It should get over 1100 fps out of the large .32ACP pistols that I mentioned.

    Jim
     
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