Why no love for S&W poly autos?
- Thread starter rocinante
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fastbolt
Member
S&W polymer-framed pistols?
I generally don't get emotionally attached to firearms. Granted, I enjoy owning some more than others, but over the years of my LE career my interest has become mostly focused on their practical value and attributes when carried as defensive weapons on & off-duty.
As a firearms instructor and armorer I've been fortunate in the regard that I've had a fair opportunity to become familiar with a number of the handguns used in the LE field. I've also been able to attend a number of armorer classes over the years (more than Baker's Dozen
).
I've attended armorer classes for the Sigma, Glock, SW99/P99 & the M&P (7 classes altogether for those models).
I own a couple of Glocks.
I own a couple of SW99's. I also carried a SW99 (.40 S&W) as an issued weapon for a few years and helped support and maintain about 50 of them over the last several years.
I own a M&P 45.
I never particularly cared for the Sigma trigger, although I've always thought the grip angle and ergonomics were very good. There have been a number of changes, revisions and refinements in the Sigma line since I attended the armorer class. I was told that the Sigma line benefited from some further refinement within the last few years, and its actually one their strongest selling lines (despite its often vocal detractors among internet forums). I have little doubt the budget cost helps its attractiveness.
While I like many things about the 99 series line, I think the M&P design offers some noticeable advantages among its features in many respects. I've mentioned this in other threads.
One of the things I've noticed over the years is that Walther is sometimes seemingly slow to ship parts here for the 99 series. Not all that uncommon to be told that parts are back-ordered from Walther.
I won't be getting rid of my Glocks, SW99's or my M&P 45 ... although I could see "retiring" my standard size SW99 (.40 S&W) and G27 to the back of the safe and eventually replacing them with similarly sized standard & compact M&P pistols chambered in .40 S&W.
FWIW, S&W has been doing very well with the new M&P pistol series. Although it was only released in January 2006, S&W has won contracts in slightly over 80% of the LE pistol evaluations/bids when the M&P was considered among the candidate pistols. Over 330 agencies so far, last I heard. Not bad for a new pistol design on the market for just a couple of years. Granted, its received some minor revisions and refinements since its initial release ... but Glock continues to make upgrades, revisions and refinements to its model line, too, you know.
I think S&W will do well with the M&P line.
I'll always have a personal preference for a nicely done traditional double action trigger design (DA/SA, if you prefer) for common defensive pistols, but I became accustomed to the Glock, and I've quickly learned to become accustomed to the M&P trigger, as well.
I generally don't get emotionally attached to firearms. Granted, I enjoy owning some more than others, but over the years of my LE career my interest has become mostly focused on their practical value and attributes when carried as defensive weapons on & off-duty.
As a firearms instructor and armorer I've been fortunate in the regard that I've had a fair opportunity to become familiar with a number of the handguns used in the LE field. I've also been able to attend a number of armorer classes over the years (more than Baker's Dozen
).I've attended armorer classes for the Sigma, Glock, SW99/P99 & the M&P (7 classes altogether for those models).
I own a couple of Glocks.
I own a couple of SW99's. I also carried a SW99 (.40 S&W) as an issued weapon for a few years and helped support and maintain about 50 of them over the last several years.
I own a M&P 45.
I never particularly cared for the Sigma trigger, although I've always thought the grip angle and ergonomics were very good. There have been a number of changes, revisions and refinements in the Sigma line since I attended the armorer class. I was told that the Sigma line benefited from some further refinement within the last few years, and its actually one their strongest selling lines (despite its often vocal detractors among internet forums). I have little doubt the budget cost helps its attractiveness.
While I like many things about the 99 series line, I think the M&P design offers some noticeable advantages among its features in many respects. I've mentioned this in other threads.
One of the things I've noticed over the years is that Walther is sometimes seemingly slow to ship parts here for the 99 series. Not all that uncommon to be told that parts are back-ordered from Walther.
I won't be getting rid of my Glocks, SW99's or my M&P 45 ... although I could see "retiring" my standard size SW99 (.40 S&W) and G27 to the back of the safe and eventually replacing them with similarly sized standard & compact M&P pistols chambered in .40 S&W.
FWIW, S&W has been doing very well with the new M&P pistol series. Although it was only released in January 2006, S&W has won contracts in slightly over 80% of the LE pistol evaluations/bids when the M&P was considered among the candidate pistols. Over 330 agencies so far, last I heard. Not bad for a new pistol design on the market for just a couple of years. Granted, its received some minor revisions and refinements since its initial release ... but Glock continues to make upgrades, revisions and refinements to its model line, too, you know.
I think S&W will do well with the M&P line.
I'll always have a personal preference for a nicely done traditional double action trigger design (DA/SA, if you prefer) for common defensive pistols, but I became accustomed to the Glock, and I've quickly learned to become accustomed to the M&P trigger, as well.
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Plastic S&Ws...
I'll admit right up front that I'm more of a revolver guy. I have a bucketful. But I also have two M&Ps; a full size 45 and a compact 9mm. Both are very good shooters and fit my hand extremely well. The interchangeble backstraps really do allow you to get "the" grip you want. Both have devoured all kinds of ammo (good and bad) without so much as a hiccup. They're easy to disassemble, clean, and reassemble. Both have nice crisp "2-stage" triggers.
I have no complaints whatsoever. I think S&W has done a good job with these pistols and they'll probably be a big success. Anyone who's in the market for an auto pistol should definitely keep the M&P in mind. I comparison shopped and chose the M&Ps over Beretta, Springfield XD, Glock, and Kahr equivalent models at the local gunshops. To be honest, any of the others would have been equally as serviceable, I'm sure. But the M&Ps just fit so well.
I'll admit right up front that I'm more of a revolver guy. I have a bucketful. But I also have two M&Ps; a full size 45 and a compact 9mm. Both are very good shooters and fit my hand extremely well. The interchangeble backstraps really do allow you to get "the" grip you want. Both have devoured all kinds of ammo (good and bad) without so much as a hiccup. They're easy to disassemble, clean, and reassemble. Both have nice crisp "2-stage" triggers.
I have no complaints whatsoever. I think S&W has done a good job with these pistols and they'll probably be a big success. Anyone who's in the market for an auto pistol should definitely keep the M&P in mind. I comparison shopped and chose the M&Ps over Beretta, Springfield XD, Glock, and Kahr equivalent models at the local gunshops. To be honest, any of the others would have been equally as serviceable, I'm sure. But the M&Ps just fit so well.
varoadking
Member
The opposite of the Glock pigsnout...
I'm not familiar with the droopy dustcovers, but from what I see in the picture of the M&P I’m wondering in it was designed that way?
Back (10 years or more?) when I was doing my research (before finally buying a Sigma) I remember reading some folks griping about the Sigma’s large seam between the slide and the frame, but according to S&W it was designed that way since under extreme use the polymer frame and metal slide expanded at different rates. Way I understood it, a certain “other” pistol did not have that wide a gap, and if run ‘til it got extremely hot the two dissimilar materials expanded at different rates, eventually contacting each other, and next thing you know you’ve got a malfunctioning pistol on yer hands.
BS or not I can’t say, but apparently that was S&W’s story and I assume they were sticking too it!
I’m wondering if the gap on the front dustcover of the M&P is (also) there for a reason?
Back (10 years or more?) when I was doing my research (before finally buying a Sigma) I remember reading some folks griping about the Sigma’s large seam between the slide and the frame, but according to S&W it was designed that way since under extreme use the polymer frame and metal slide expanded at different rates. Way I understood it, a certain “other” pistol did not have that wide a gap, and if run ‘til it got extremely hot the two dissimilar materials expanded at different rates, eventually contacting each other, and next thing you know you’ve got a malfunctioning pistol on yer hands.
BS or not I can’t say, but apparently that was S&W’s story and I assume they were sticking too it!
I’m wondering if the gap on the front dustcover of the M&P is (also) there for a reason?
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MaterDei
Member
The quality of the plastic on the Sigma trigger is very impressive. As hard as I pulled it, it never broke.
I really hated that gun.
I really hated that gun.
jgorniak
Member
SW9VE was my first purchased gun. Never had any other autos to compare it to, so nothing was expected (other than trigger pull = bang).
A few autos later, and I still love this gun.
A few autos later, and I still love this gun.
Ske1etor
Member
I tell you what... all these folks in here complaining about the trigger on the sigma. Here is a test for you. Shoot one group with your favorite pistol. Now, find someone with a sigma and ask them if you can shoot a couple hundred rounds through it. Do so over the next few days/weeks, whatever. Then return to your favorite firearm and shoot another single group. If you got worse, you need to trade in your firearm for a bullet proof vest and hope for the best.
It is an affordable, combat accurate firearm with Smith and Wesson customer service and they are giving away all kinds of stuff right now when you purchase one.
It is an affordable, combat accurate firearm with Smith and Wesson customer service and they are giving away all kinds of stuff right now when you purchase one.
Onesiphorus
Member
I like my Sigma 9mm. $285.99 NIB and a slimmer profile than any Glock or boXD. Trigger gets better with use. My 3913TSW has the best trigger reset in the industry, but it's not plastic. Sold my M&P Compact 9mm because a Glock 26 was easier for me to conceal. I love my 1911SC, but it's metal too. Guess I don't know the answer to your question so I'll quit mumbling now.
Quote:
Back (10 years or more?) when I was doing my research (before finally buying a Sigma) I remember reading some folks griping about the Sigma’s large seam between the slide and the frame, but according to S&W it was designed that way since under extreme use the polymer frame and metal slide expanded at different rates. Way I understood it, a certain “other” pistol did not have that wide a gap, and if run ‘til it got extremely hot the two dissimilar materials expanded at different rates, eventually contacting each other, and next thing you know you’ve got a malfunctioning pistol on yer hands.
Anyone who has worked in composite materials will tell you it's called the
"coefficient of thermal expansion". Yes, the composite material and the metal do expand at different rates when heating up and can cause a serious binding condition.
Back (10 years or more?) when I was doing my research (before finally buying a Sigma) I remember reading some folks griping about the Sigma’s large seam between the slide and the frame, but according to S&W it was designed that way since under extreme use the polymer frame and metal slide expanded at different rates. Way I understood it, a certain “other” pistol did not have that wide a gap, and if run ‘til it got extremely hot the two dissimilar materials expanded at different rates, eventually contacting each other, and next thing you know you’ve got a malfunctioning pistol on yer hands.
Anyone who has worked in composite materials will tell you it's called the
"coefficient of thermal expansion". Yes, the composite material and the metal do expand at different rates when heating up and can cause a serious binding condition.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I know the feeling.
I bought a Baby Browning several years ago.
Just because it was so cute.
Still, it weighs more then my P3AT.
rcmodel
I bought a Baby Browning several years ago.
Just because it was so cute.
Still, it weighs more then my P3AT.
rcmodel
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