Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why no SKS in 7.62X54R

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by mshootnit, Apr 7, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,073
    I have always thought that the SKS was a cool rifle especially the russian ones, but I have always thought of them as being large and overbuilt to be chambered in an intermediate assault rifle cartridge like the X39. It seems to me that a full size rifle needs to be chambered to a RIFLE cartridge. And I thought it would be very cool to have an SKS in 7.62X54. Why didn't the russians ever try this? Would it even be possible?
     
  2. Broken11b

    Broken11b Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Near Detroit
    they made one already, its the SVT 40... or SVT 38... I cant remember which one

    the SKS is based off of its action for a smaller "more modern" (circa 1943) caliber
     
  3. d2wing

    d2wing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,817
    Or Saiga .308
     
  4. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    The SKS was made by Simonov (system carbine simonov i think it translates to)
    The SVT-38/40 was created by Tokarev (Tokerev?) (and translates into self-loading rifle tokerev)

    x39=carbine
    x54r=rifle

    They both use a short-gas system with a tilting block bolt

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVT-40
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS

    IMO the SVT-40 looks cooler.
     
  5. isc

    isc Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    235
    The SKS mechanism was actually based on firing mechanism for a tank's main gun.

    I suspect that an SKS action, suitably scaled up could handle the 7.62x54r cartridge. After all, the FAL uses a similar tipping bolt design and the 7.62 Nato round is very close in power to the 7.62x54r.

    By mid WWII, the US, Germany, and Russia all developed intermediate cartridges and weapons that fired them. The advantages were obvious (lower recoil, more controllable automatic fire, larger ammo loads and the assault rifle was born.
     
  6. XxWINxX94

    XxWINxX94 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    C(r)ook County, Illinois
    The SVT 40s are so cool.

    Still gotta get me one :banghead:
     
  7. Broken11b

    Broken11b Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Near Detroit
    Tyeo098, you are correct, after looking into it I was thinking about the AVS-36. Simonov directly designed that one.

    and to the op: just get a Mosin Nagant... itll be cheaper than any other 7.62x54R platform
     
  8. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,325
    Location:
    North Carolina
    An SVT 40 would be a great acquisition, but realistically an FPK/PSL is available, albeit a bit expensive, but is a tough, proven 54R platform and is still used in conflicts in the deserts and mountains far away.



    NCsmitty
     
  9. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,887
    Location:
    Varies
    Hokay, to clarify:

    There was the AVS-36 in 1936, in 7.62x54R, invented by Simonov. It was full auto and not that great. There was a 1938 Red Army Autoloading Rifle Trials upgraded version, but the Tokarev design won that year. Simonov instead built an antitank gun using the mechanism, the PTRS-41, in 14.5x114 and it was wildly successful. In 1945 Simonov scaled down the simplified mechanism so that it could use the new 7.62x39 cartridge, and small trial batches were fielded at the very end of the war as the SKS-45 carbine.
     
  10. gunokie

    gunokie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Dunno about the 7.62X54, I believe the SVT 40's were actually based on the old German GEW42, simular to the Swedish Lujman and the Hakim.
    The SKS wasn't designed as a "battle rifle", but as a "carbine".
    The Chinese did import a very few commercial models in .223 however.
    BT
     
  11. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,887
    Location:
    Varies
    Gew42? You mean Gew43? Three years later and a flap-locked bolt. Ag42B Ljungmann? Hakim? Mid WW2 and late sixties, respectively, hardly influences.

    The SVT 40 was an upgraded version of the SVT-38, which in turn was derived from mid-1930s designs, though some people argue it does look suspiciously like the mechanism of the 1930s experimental FN rifle that later became the EXP-1, SAFN-49 and FAL. But by the same token, the French had been playing with tilting lock bolts since before the first world war, so among the various operation methods, it's not a wild coincidence for the same combination of features to be used in different firearms.
     
  12. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,572
    Location:
    illinois
    XxWINxX94, about a year ago I bought an SKS from a dealer in Paxton, Illinois. He had an SVT in the back corner of his rack. This was the kind of shop that some guy opens after he retires, and who's business hours are whenever he's around. Chances are probably good that it's still sitting in that corner. Here's the info:
    124 South Market Street
    Paxton, IL 60957-1222
    (217) 379-0146
     
  13. -v-

    -v- Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,217
    One of the interesting things about the SVT-38 and SVT-40 is that the Soviets actually manufactured more SVT-40's then we did M1 Garands, but only by a few hundred thousand. I think I read somewhere that for a Guards infantry squad it was not uncommon to have 2 or 3 soldiers equipped with SVT's, the rest with Mosin's, PPSh, and a DP-28 or two.
     
  14. BananaClip

    BananaClip Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    Waffen Werks actually has a rifle called the AK54R.. It's actually an AK47 that shoots a 7.62x54R round! Probably not what you had in mind but a pretty cool rifle....
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2011
  15. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Location:
    Rural Kentucky, surrounded by Amish
    Its just a Romanian PSL with plastic furniture.
     
  16. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    Check out the Tiger, which is/was (as it isn't imported anymore)
    a civi model of the SVD
     
  17. ISO1600

    ISO1600 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    Abilene, TX
    yeah and check out the Tiger's price.
     
  18. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    OH, what about the VZ 58??
     
  19. isc

    isc Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    235
    What about it? It has nothing to do with 7.62x54r or the SKS except that it also shoots 7.62x39.

    What about the price of corn in china or the moisture content of the wind in the spanish plains?
     
  20. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,178
    Location:
    Kentucky
    The rimmed cases of x54 ammo are tough to work with in an auto loading rifle. That would probably be my first guess.
     
  21. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,770
    One thing I found interesting when I first bought a SKS in 1990 was the tilting breech lockup is nearly identical to my Pederson designed Rem. model 25 pump built in 1927. Wonder if the Russians ever saw one?
     
  22. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Location:
    Rural Kentucky, surrounded by Amish
    --Wikipedia :)
     
  23. caribou

    caribou Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,582
    Location:
    North West Alaska
    The SVT-40 was actually taken out of production in 1942, and Mosin production was restablished insted, because it was complex (to drafted pesants) and not very reliable. They were issued mostly to Soviet Navel and Marine Battalions

    The Germans liked to capture them because they were the only full power semi automatic battle rifle availible at the front, and were as popular as PPsh-41s to increase the squads firepower untill the SturmGewehr series came up with more firepower for the average german soldiers.

    I have a Finn Capture Tula and a refrurb Tula, and both are cranky, but fun to shoot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  24. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    The VZ 58 is ALSO a tilt block...
     
  25. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,887
    Location:
    Varies
    The Vz-58 is a derivation of the Vz-52, which in turn is a hybridization of the ZH-29, SVT40, M1 Garand, and SKS. Sorta a dogleg branch of firearms evolution, the Czechs always did like to do their own thing.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page