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Why Not 22 Mag.?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Wolfpackin, Dec 11, 2006.

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  1. Wolfpackin

    Wolfpackin Member

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    I'm a new member but have been following many discussions of caliber importance here and elsewhere. I recently applied for my CCW permit and I'm considering a .22 Mag for lighter carry situations when my .40 S&W is too heavy.
    According to my NRA instructor the .22 Mag has greater muzzle energy (324 ft/lbs) than .38 Spcl, .380, .32 & .25 yet many posters prefer the .38 Spcl. or others.
    Stopping power is often dependant upon a vital body part being hit and the .22 Mag has great penetration. My thinking is that if you miss a vital part by more than 1/4 inch you would miss with a .45 too.
    So I'm curious to read what you guys think about this.

    Also, caliber aside do any of you have any info on the Taurus 941? I understand there have been some misfire problems.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    .22 Magnum

    The only weapon I own that is chambered in .22 magnum is a North American
    Arms "min" revolver with 1-1/8" barrel; but its as loud as my 2.5" barrel S&W
    .357 magnum~!:uhoh: :)
     
  3. Pistol Toter

    Pistol Toter Member

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    Carry what you're comfortable with. But it comes down to a Little hole vs Big hole. Light bullet .22 40gr +/- vs a 125 - 158gr +/- .357 or 230gr - .45 acp. or a multitude of calibre projectile weights. The .22 may or may not give the penetration desired where the more "potent" round most likely will. There are arguments and examples to prove or disporve both ideologies. This thread will most likely turn into another calibre war and maybe that's what you want. If you do some serious research you will fnd these discussinons. Personally, I would not consider a .22 mag as a serious carry round. Again, carry what fits your personally needs. Just my opinion.

    AlaDan the only .22 I've got is a single shot rifle.
     
  4. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Would you rather be stabbed with a sewing needle, a ballpoint pen, an ice pick, or a claymore? It's the big hole vs. little hole debate. And sometimes 1/4" is all that you need to hit a major organ or blood vessel.

    That being said, any gun is better than no gun. If the hole was all that mattered, we'd all be carrying Desert Eagles in .50AE. Buy what you will carry.
     
  5. stormwaltz

    stormwaltz Member

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  6. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    22Mag from a handgun won't hit those energy numbers. Not unless it's a 9" barrel Ruger SA in 22Mag (which has been produced in small quantities).

    There have been some 8-shot 22Mag revolvers built on J-class frames. One of these with a 4" tube would make a respectable weapon for those unable to cope with 38+P or above recoil levels. But there's no speedloaders available...
     
  7. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    First, welcome to THR. There was thread here a while back titled "Statistical Analysis of Energy Transfer". What I learned from it is that damage from energy transer - the wound cavity opening radially around the path of the bullet from hydrostatic shock - does not occur until over 1000 FPE, somewhere in the 1200 FPE area if I remember correctly. Essentially pistol caliber rounds (excluding very hot 44 Mag & up hunting loads) are punching holes by crushing tissue in their path. In trying to incapacate a threat you must either make a CNS/major organ hit, or create rapid blood loss. Deep penetration from a large diameter bullet will create the largest wound channel, thereby promoting rapid blood loss.

    As to the .22 Mag. put me firmly in the I'll take any gun that shoots over no gun camp. I prefer my Kel-Tec .380 when I cant carry a larger gun. I think the S&W J frames and similar guns from others makers in .38 Special, .32 H&R, and the like are excellent as well. I'd not like to shoot 357 Mag out of a gun that size. Now sometimes folks get arthritis, wrist/arm injuries, or what not, and they just can't shoot a .38 or .32 auto or revolver. For those folks a .22 Mag, or even a .22 LR, is a great option. Head out to an outdoor range and get good at shooting some ping pong balls with it. A little .22 wheelgun or auto will arm you just fine with the right practice and mindset when that's all you've got.
     
  8. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    That energy is out of a rifle, not a handgun. It'd do real good to get 150 ft lbs out of a 6" barrel, let alone the little sub 2" barrels typical. My 2" .38 gets about 265 ft lbs out of its 2" barrel, well more than the .22 mag. 140-158 grain bullets don't hurt for penetration either vs 50 grains max for the .22.

    My personal minimum is the .380. A P3 AT can go anywhere you can pack a .22 mag. I'd suggest a larger caliber. Sure, anything's better than nothing, but so what. If you are getting a minimum caliber/maximum concealment gun, the P3 AT is a good choice. I wouldn't look at less caliber. You're probably about as well off with a .22 mag as a .32ACP, but that ain't sayin' a whole bunch.
     
  9. jparham

    jparham Member

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    Would you rather be hit by a Lotus Elise going 100, or a Yukon XL going 65?
     
  10. VA27

    VA27 Member

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    If I had to carry my S&W Model 51, for whatever reason, I wouldn't be afraid to. I'd rather have something bigger, but 6 rounds of 22 mag at across-the-room ranges is nothing to sneeze at.
     
  11. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Here Is Mine

    a '98 edition of the North American "mini"~!;) :cool: :D
     

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  12. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    For me Expense is about the only reason.
     
  13. Bob79

    Bob79 Member

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    The S&W 351PD is a J-frame with 7 rounds of .22 magnum that would be a good choice. Weighs less than 12 ozs, 7 shots, and virtually no recoil.

    According to NAA mini website, the CCI Maxi Mag +V 30 grain bullet does an avg of 1150 FPS from a 1 5/8" barrel, and the S&W is 1 7/8" barrel. Not bad.
     
  14. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    A quick calculation gives me 88 ft lbs. Far cry from a .38 special, eh? I didn't even bother with a momentum calculation, just call it zero...:D In this caliber, I'd want a 50 grain bullet regardless of velocity.
     
  15. enfield

    enfield Member

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    What kind of penetration can you get with .22 mag from a 2 to 4 inch barrel in calibrated ballistic gel? I suspect it's well under 12 inches. Anybody have any data?
     
  16. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    There was a thread about that a while back. That's why I'd want the heaviest bullet in the caliber, to maximize penetration. I don't know if that 30 grain hollow point would make 5".
     
  17. chipp

    chipp Member

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    I think its a great back up as long as you know its limitations. in the summer shorts and no shirt its small and comfortable. I have alot of easy carry guns..for me there is always a day here and there in the summer that even my bauer 25 feels to heavey and I wouldn't carry anything if it werent for the mini. Mine has a 2 3/4" barrell. (cut down from 4)
    actually I was having a problem with it misfiring. its got to be at least 10 years old.
    I sent it to NAA and they rebuilt it and sent it back. only charging for shipping.
    They replaced all the small parts. (i know their all small parts)
     
  18. Confederate

    Confederate Member

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    I'd greatly prefer a good .38 +P to a .22 mag, but I defend the latter as an adequate weapon. Even a Ruger Mark II would be formidible in .22LR because of its amazing rapid fire. Despite what I was carrying, I would hate to go up against someone with a Ruger.

    The magnum packs substantially more punch, but still lacks sufficient energy to put down a determined attack. Because the gun is lighter, you're more likely to carry it and for that reason it may be just what you need.

    Where it really shines is out of a rifle.
     
  19. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    While I would love to have a 22 WMR revolver for concealed carry, I would just stick with a 38spl +P Smith (Model 442 or 642). 22 mags are real noisy and the bullet is pretty small. I lean toward a slightly larger hole size (caliber). If you research the various threads on the 22 LR or 22 WMR for carry, you always end up with the higher probabilty for a misfire with a rimfire caliber issue and the hole size argument. What is big enough? Your choice. It is your life.
     
  20. Wolfpackin

    Wolfpackin Member

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    Thank You!

    Thanks to all that replied. I will continue to watch the responses as I make my decision. Please note my new post in this forum "Taurus .38 Spcl" I started a new thread to entice others.
     
  21. mike101

    mike101 Member

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    McGUNNER

    I don't know that the 50 grain Federal Game-Shock would give you more penetration. Compared to their 40 and 30 grain rounds, the 50 grain produces less velocity AND quite a bit less energy. I was surprised by this, because one would assume that the heavier bullet would pack more punch.

    Some ammo makers are using a 40 grain FMJ bullet. Wouldn't that give you the most penetration? I am also thinking about RWS .40 grain rounds, FMJ and SJHP. These have the highest velocity of any 40 grain rounds I've seen (for $25/50 they should), but I can't find the energy figures.

    I bought a .22 Mag. Mini recently, but it's still out at the smiths, being improved (forged barrel), so I haven't fired it yet.

    I have a box of CCI + V, CCI 40 grain FMJ, and a box of the RWS SJHP's, so I'm curious about all of this.
     
  22. Stainz

    Stainz Member

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    I have an arthritic friend with a 642. My favorite PD round for a .38 snubby, if it is +P rated, is the Remington R38S12 158gr LHPSWC +P round, which I chrono-ed at 840 fps from my 2" 10 for 247 ft-lb. It has a proven record - and is more effective in one shot stops than .45 ACP ball ammo. This round is too much for my friend. A great low recoil round is the simple 148gr full wadcutter, with the largest meplate of all .38 caliber bullets. That will make a large wound channel for the caliber chosen, albeit not offer the energy to shatter many bones - or to over-penetrate. It has a very mild recoil, even in the Airweight. It makes a 'boom', not the supersonic/earsplitting crack of a .22 Magnum or .357 Magnum. Just a thought...

    Stainz

    PS Price a 442 or 642 - then that 351! Now price/find the ammo - .38 Special ammo is about the same as .22 Magnum.
     
  23. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I still hold the opinion that for a .22 Magnum pistol to really exploit the true potential of the cartridge one need to have a minimum of five inches of barrel length.
    Any shorter and you are not getting any better performance than a .22 CCI Stinger out of the same length barre and this pretty well eliminates the .22 Magnum as a serious candidate for serious defense carry.l.

    If Smith and Wesson offered the 351 with adjustable sights, a five or six inch barrel and called it the 'Magnum Kit Gun" I for one would buy one.
    As such as it is offered now, a two inch barrel seven shooter is nothing more than an offer to the gullible and a waste of $5 to $8 a box ammunition.
     
  24. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    I think that's the whole point of the mini revolver, they can go when nothing else can. They are so easy to carry, I mean, WHY NOT own one and carry it even if you're carrying two other guns?

    Mine is in .22LR. Out of a 1" barrel, there's not much difference in the LR and the mag except the mag is a LOT louder as 90 percent of the charge is burning outside the barrel. I have mine in a "holster grip" so I can actually HIT something with it.:D I can't even hold the danged thing to fire without the holster grip, but the gun folds up in it like a little pocket knife.

    They're handy, excellent little guns, but I sure wouldn't wanna have to depend on one as a primary. But, there are a very few times when I can't carry anything bigger, and I don't do shorts. You don't wanna see these chicken legs in shorts, trust me. :eek: The mini revolver beats nothin', but fortunately mine mostly rides as back up or third gun. It's easier to carry than some of the knives I see guys posting that they carry and I'm sorta scared of knives. I don't like contact weapons. The NAA is ALMOST a contact weapon, but not quite.:D
     
  25. Jamie C.

    Jamie C. Member

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    Well, it ain't a Smith & Wesson, but it's got a 5 inch barrel and carries 8 rounds...
    [​IMG]
    TAURUS MODEL 941 .22 Mag. REVOLVER


    J.C.
     
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