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Why not a Wal-Mart $114 muzzle loader?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by <SLV>, Oct 7, 2008.

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  1. oneshooter

    oneshooter Member

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    If you plan to hunt with "it". Then check your local laws, some states have outlawed "them" for hunting during ML season.

    Oneshooter
    Livin in Texas
     
  2. SteveDS

    SteveDS Member

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    Guess is that this guy's opinions will raise some interesting responses here, but you may want to read them before you buy. Personally, I do not like the idea of putting my face next to a tube loaded with an explosive charge when it has a questionalble quality record, no matter how much better it may be than muzzloaders sold 10 years ago. Not sure safety glasses have improved that much. Pick up a used Knight, TC, or Lyman if you do not want to buy new.

    http://randywakeman.com/IsMyMuzzleloaderSafe.htm

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/dangerous_muzzleloaders.htm
     
  3. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Randy Wakeman has zero credibility with many, if not most, serious bp shooters. For what it's worth, in my opinion he has absolutely nothing to add to any serious consideration of black powder shooting sports.
     
  4. dgray64

    dgray64 Member

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    I bought the Wolf because of the price last spring from Cabelas . It has light gathering sights that make lining up on your target very easy. The sights are easy to adjust. It's really accurate and the soft recoil pad nearly eliminates the kick. If you really concentrate as you are supposed to, the smooth trigger goes off so easily that you are surprised and the ball goes right where you aimed it. Fun!!

    The think to remember is that not all powders are equal in power. Play with it with different loads, but when you sight it in for hunting, do so with the load and bullet that you will use for hunting. I can sight mine with Goex FF and a lead ball, to be right on target, but when I shoot pellets (100 gr) of Pyradex or Seven7, the hit will be at least 4" higher than the hit from the Goex and ball. Either will kill a deer easily, but choose your load ahead of time and practice so that you are not surprised with a miss during the hunt. Have fun and make lots of smoke!!

    Dave :neener:
     
  5. <SLV>

    <SLV> Member

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    I ended up spending $147 at Wal-Mart to get the CVA Wolf. The break action looked to be easier to clean and offered better weather protection.

    They had two on the rack at Wally-World, so I asked to look at both of them. Right away I noticed that the trigger guards were different. A closer inspection showed that one was alluminum and the other was plastic. I wonder if the plastic style is newer. I picked up the one with the alluminum guard. I was also disappointed to see that the sites were plastic. They are nice and bright fiber sights, but I've had a hard time getting plastic sites to sit still. I may end up getting a 1x scope for it.

    First thing I did after getting it home was break it. I'm a lefty, and I wanted to move the hammer thumb extension to the other side. It appeared to be threaded into the hammer, but it just twisted off (It was alluminum). Oh well... I wasn't going to use it on that side anyway. It looks like it was lok-tited into place.

    Now I'm in the process of getting all of the stuff to make it go boom. Unfortunately, Sportsman's Warehouse is mostly out of stock because the muzzle-loading season is over here in Colorado. Here is my wishlist:

    1. Thompson deluxe bullet starter
    2. Thompson U-view clear powder measure
    3. CVA Pyrodex bottle funnel
    4. Triple-7 powder and 209 primers

    Now just to find someone who stocks this stuff. I'll be casting bullets for it (Lee 250 gr. .512 REAL), so I got that part covered. I also picked up some T/C foaming bore cleaner at Wal-Mart.
     
  6. ATAShooter

    ATAShooter Member

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    I would like to take the time and eat some crow.... I had posted earlier...

    After shooting the Traditions again now for a while, I have had a few things that has made me start to rethink this...

    1 - I wanted to use the Blackorn 209 powder. Well, due to the way the primer goes into the plug, I have gotten some "Delayed" ignitions. I found out that the Breech Plug in my rifle is of a "Not Recommended" type for this powder.

    2 - Coming off a hammer gun, going back to a "Slam-fire" bolt, made me notice the debris that comes out when firing. So definitely wear eye protection.

    3 - Sloppyness of the trigger - Now I know it is a get what you pay for deal, however, coming back from the Omega made me really take note.

    I am going to take the plunge and purchase a Thompson Triumph. ( I know, bend over and spell RUN 3 times ). I have had a chance to experement with it and like it.

    I just wanted a chance to correct myself, as The Traditions I had was my starter, and seemed good. However, after going back to it from the Omega, I see why it was the cost it was.

    Sorry guys,

    Rick L.:(
     
  7. frontiergander

    frontiergander Member

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    You may be able to trade in those plastic sights for steel durabrights. Call cva and see what they can do for ya.

    Make sure you clean that rifle out good and lube the breech plug with Breech plug grease.

    The wolf is a good shooting rifle from the reports i see on forums.
     
  8. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Traditions has a special sale on riflescopes happening right now.
    They have a 1 X 32 camo muzzle loading scope for $59.
    Inexpensive 1 X 32 riflescopes aren't easy to find.

    http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=A1141SC

    [​IMG]

    If you click on their home page, you'll see links to some special deals on scope rings and other Bargain Bin accessories.

    http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/

    There's also a link to their Bargain Bin at the top right of every page.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
  9. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Other than the unsightly plastic stock, no. It should shoot. Just keep your loads to 120 gr BP equivalent or less (100 grains of 777 or less) with the Spanish-made guns, and you'll be fine. They will kill the game and work reliably if you operate and clean them properly.
     
  10. <SLV>

    <SLV> Member

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    Now that you mention it, the stock is very narrow at the comb -- uncomfortably so. I'm probably going to get one of those adhessive foam comb pads to build it up a little.

    Thanks for the tip on the Traditions scopes. 1x rifle scopes are hard to find at a cheap price. I'd prefer the matte black, but I see it is out of stock.
     
  11. Matt-J2

    Matt-J2 Member

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    How well would patched round balls work in a Wolf? Been thinking about getting one of these myself. I'd prefer more traditional sidelock type, but the price is certainly right on the Wolf, and it's kind of neat on it's own.
     
  12. frontiergander

    frontiergander Member

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    round ball will shoot fine with a low powder charge.

    As for the guy shooting BH209 in his tracker, thats a No no in the Plunger styled muzzleloader.
     
  13. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    You guys got me thinking. I have 2 cva bobcats in .50. I use 75 grs. of 777 with a patched round ball. They are very accurate guns. We've used them for several years without incident.

    Are we foolish for still using them or should we get better equipment?
     
  14. frontiergander

    frontiergander Member

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    cva bobcat is a darn good rifle, i owned one till i traded it for my current cva optima. I only own one inline, the rest are sidelocks and flintlocks. The traditionals in my opinion are a lot more fun and a lot more rewarding when the smoke clears in the field.
     
  15. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Every gun, action and ignition system has it's advantages and disadvantages.
    You can buy new equipment that may shoot more accurately at longer distances, but there's trade-offs.
    Inlines can be more expensive to feed, more difficult to load and more fickle to shoot becaused they usually require more swabbing between shots. People switch when they get tired of what they're shooting and when they're ready to try something new.
    You'll essentially need to give up patched round balls, but you'll gain more reliable ignition and will be able to mount a scope more easily if your state hunting laws allows it.
    What's better is what's more comfortable and desirable in the opinion of the individual shooter. :)
     
  16. <SLV>

    <SLV> Member

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    I've been told that the rate of twist in the CVA Wolf is too great for effective ball stabilization. Here is the rule of thumb I was given regardng twist:

    1:28-1:48 Sabots or conical ball bullets

    1:48-1:78 Patch and ball.

    1:48 Both, but not the best for either
     
  17. Coyote Hunter

    Coyote Hunter Member

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    Sunday, one hour before sundown, buck next to barbed wire fence 65 yards away, Traditions hawken from cabellas circa early 1990's. 1-48 twist, .490 hornady pached roundball, 90 grains 2FG, dead on profile staring right at the popup blind. Big bang, cloud of smoke, solid hit, dead deer. Case closed.:cool:

    But man ain't it fun to talk about these guns!:D
     
  18. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    <SLV> - You've got the 'rule of thumb' right, but like many such urban legends there are some caveats. The detail shape of the conical matters as does the range and magnitude of powder load; Minie balls, although characterized by many as conicals, act more like round balls. The poor ballistic coefficient of round balls makes the rule of thumb pretty much incorrect the further you're shooting (after about 100 yards, and for sure by 125 yards). Round balls will shoot fairly well at shorter ranges using light loads even in fast twist barrels like 1:20. Etc. Etc. Bottom line: try it.
     
  19. <SLV>

    <SLV> Member

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    What is the advantage to round balls? Cost? No barrel leading?
     
  20. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Yes they're cheaper, easier to start and ram and there's no plastic fouling either.
     
  21. Matt-J2

    Matt-J2 Member

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    Cheaper by a large margin, so far as I've seen. One could pick up 100 round balls + patches for the same cost(or less) than 20-25 sabots and bullets(or the Powerbelts, or even plain Conicals).

    I'm sure there's deals here and there, but from what I've seen, shooting sabots in a muzzleloader is as much or more expensive than shotgun slugs. Well...maybe. I think avg runs between 50 cents and $1 per bullet/sabot. Really depends on what you're going for. Most of what I see local though is in the near $1 range.
     
  22. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    Like I said, they expand better, and at shorter ranges with slow twist barrels they're more accurate, especially in the smaller calibers.

    You really need to try several projectiles and loads in your gun to see what works best at the ranges you're going to be shooting. That's the fun part of bp shooting - working up your own load regardless of what the urban legends on the internet or around the campfire are. Every gun is different. Just like you'd be foolish to shoot somebody else's cartridge reloads, shooting some internet recommendation without trying others is, well, just wrong.
     
  23. SaltH2OHokie

    SaltH2OHokie Member

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    SLV - if you want a thumb extension on the other side, call CVA and get them to send you one. The reason you wrenched it off is because it's got a left-hand thread...you were tightening till it broke.

    There's probably still room to thread one in from the other side, though. Without even removing the broken off threads from the RH side.
     
  24. flyboy1788

    flyboy1788 Member

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    ive got a new frontier beartooth magnum ( it is basically a cva wolf under different name) muzzleloader in .50 that cost $200 with a scope from cabelas. I do plan on getting more muzzleloaders down the road, but i will say that it is VERY accurate for such a short barrel. I can consistantly clover leaf my 3 shot groups at 50 yards with 100 grains of Pyrodex pellets and a 245 grain powerbelt hollowpoint. At one hundred yards the accuracy is closer to 3 moa. I am pleased with it. It will be my go to brush gun.
     
  25. presidents_topgun

    presidents_topgun Member

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    Muzzleloader safety

    I would refrain from buying any CVA muzzleloader. They are an import and do not pass my standard for safety, or proof pressure testings. If you value your face and care not to have your digits blown off, I'd steer clear of their inferior firearms. I speak not only from experience, but have seen first hand the inferior quality in the spanish steel they use. However, they make a good conversation piece for above the fireplace. I have nothing against import firearms since I own several. I am just concerned about the safety of the shooter and bystanders. Also, I do not wish to grant license to the anti's and the CDC to falsely misrepresent firearm safety. Importers do not give one hang about your safety. They are only interested in the bottom-line. Don't give that redneck Hillbillary any ammunition to use against the shooting populace. Hillbillary has now been tapped for S.O.S., she will have an increased passion ramped up against gun owners. Best wishes to all.
     
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