Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why not more companies making slim DA/SA hammer fired pistols?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Orion8472, Apr 11, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,884
    I was looking for a slim DA/SA pistol, and at best, people could only really offer something like the S&W 3913. Why don't you see more options from other companies [and new models]? Seems to me that a DA/SA type carry weapon would be a better choice for those who don't like the Striker Fire style guns. Or, . . . do people just REALLY like Striker Fire that much that it is all they want [thus all maker will make]?

    What I would love would be a modern polymer frame gun, DA/SA, nearly as slim as the Kahr. I like the trigger on the FNX-9 and would love if they made a slim conceal carry line [which I really doubt they ever would].

    Anyone else think this way?
     
  2. g_one

    g_one Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    445
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I think for me, it comes down to just how concealed you want to carry. I prefer hammer-fired guns, however if I'm going to be putting it in my pocket I really don't want that hammer stick out to snag on things. For a pocket gun, give me an LCP or a G26 any day.
    But for IWB, or if you just want a smaller gun, I'd love to see a compact polymer that I could carry Condition 1. When I picture that, I picture something like a cross between a SIG P239 and SA XDs
     
  3. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,884
    Currently, I am waiting out the release of the XDs in 9mm, . . . . but really don't like the idea of a striker fired gun, . . . knowing that its firing pin is spring loaded doesn't give me a lot of confidence. I know people will say that "it won't fire unless the trigger is pulled", but still, that spring is under tension.

    I just think I would feel "safer" with a DA/SA with decocker option. But most likely will begrudgingly pick up the XDs.
     
  4. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,570
    Location:
    Charleston, South Carolina
    You're getting around to the issue there. DA/SA is falling out of favor. The preference is just to avoid the changing of the pull weight between shots.

    There are still people that like the action type, and its not flawed to any serious degree, but the majority of consumers and law enforcement seem have been trending to striker fired designs (or DAO designs) for the better part of 3 decades now. A lot of the DA/SA designs that are still popular today have been around for a good long while - there are some new ones coming on the market but not a lot.

    There are millions of striker fired guns being carried daily. Nearly every law enforcement officer in the nation carries a striker fired gun. In the 25-30 years that they've been common on the market, I don't think I've EVER heard of one just "going off". Trust me, the design is safe. Even if sear were to fail releasing the striker every striker fired gun I'm aware of has a firing pin block that still wouldn't let it touch a live round unless the trigger was pulled).
     
  5. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    5,246
    Location:
    SouthEastern FL
    It's an interesting question, at least. I wonder if the mechanics/internals of the DA/SA operation somehow demand a frame stronger than polymer. I can't see how, but maybe...
     
  6. ECVMatt

    ECVMatt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Yonder
    I could see where the hammer location would have to be relieved and could possible compromise strength, but it would also seem like an inserted block could reinforce the area.

    I carry striker fired guns without worry. You might look at the Ruger SR series, they have more safety features than needed.
     
  7. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,884
    mgmorden, that is a practical post, and I hear what you're saying. As I said, I am currently awaiting the release of the 9mm XDs, so I will end up with one anyway. Just liked that extra protection, . . . even though you're probably right in that there hasn't been one "just going off on its own". Why I'm waiting out that XDs is because of the added "peace of mind" of the grip safety. It's my "plan B", really.
     
  8. 19-3Ben

    19-3Ben Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,146
    Location:
    CT
    If that were the case, the FN pistols would be severely problematic, and they don't seem to be.

    I think mgmorden hit it right on the head. Most people just don't like having to switch between the heavy first trigger pull, and lighter subsequent ones.
     
  9. ku4hx

    ku4hx Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,794
    I think the concept of hammerless guns in general gaining traction was the possibility of a hammer snagging on clothing. Early attempts such as spurless hammers and shrouded hammers tried to correct this with the Glock (once again) "solving" the "problem".
     
  10. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,884
    True, there is more probability of a "hammer snagged on clothing". It requires more training to make sure your shirt is lifted well up out of the way. I guess the flat back of a striker fire pistol is another reason for the limiting of the hammer pistol.

    CZ has the Rami, . . . . which is relatively small, . . . but the thing is quite thick. Their attempt at a polymer frame resulted in bulges.

    Good thoughts, guys.
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,778
    Location:
    Central PA
    Exactly. It's a little bit like an auto manufacturer still making a carbureted engine, a solid front axle 4x4 truck, drum brakes, t-tops, etc. Yeah, there are plenty of folks who still like those things, and they still work just as well as they ever did, but they are rather dated designs now and technology has moved us in a different direction.

    There's really no reason you can't learn to shoot that DA first shot well. And there's no reason you can't remember to pull out the choke knob a little when you're first starting your car, or get out in the mud to lock your hubs.
     
  12. Bovice

    Bovice Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,593
    Solid front axles... lol

    We're light-years from that.... Back in 2001 or 2002 Chevrolet came out with the quadrasteer silverado. While they didn't really take off in popularity, it's a really cool feature.

    With that said, I still like DA/SA more than striker, but it isn't over safety concerns.
     
  13. Orion8472

    Orion8472 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,884
    Sam, . . . my brother in law had a fuel injection in his 66 Nova and it never really ran that well, so he put a carburator on it. Runs great! :D

    But seriously, I get what you're saying. . . . and because "thin" is more important to me than most characteristics, I'll have to get the new technology.
     
  14. tarosean

    tarosean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,402
    Location:
    TX
    Technology or Profits?
     
  15. RedAlert

    RedAlert Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    678
    Location:
    Silverdale, WA
    With the exception of my DA revolver, all my weapons are DA/SA. I sold my Kahr because I didn't care for the DAO action. No other complaints with it other than the action.
    I don't have a problem with the DA/SA, generally if I am not under a time constraint, I cock the hammer back with my off hand and shoot all rounds SA. Of course if time were an issue, I can just fire it DA first immediately out of the holster as I keep one in the chamber and a full mag in the well.
    As for using as a reason that time is passing by and newer products are being developed as a reason for the declining popularity, I think is flawed. Just look at the 1911s, that thing is a dinosaur among handguns, and is just as effective today as a century ago.
     
  16. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,778
    Location:
    Central PA
    Not sure I follow. I doubt there are a whole lot of production cost savings (thus increased profit per unit) to be had from developing a new striker-fired design over building the same old DA/SA.

    Now, profits because more folks will buy your product? Sure! Plenty. That would be a change in the state of the art driving demand for new technology which then increases your profits if you change to meet demand. Kind of self-defeating to make a design that a decreasing number of buyers want (or are willing to accept the perceived shortcomings of).
     
  17. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,778
    Location:
    Central PA
    It isn't "flawed," it just doesn't describe all the different forces in the market. The 1911 is a design that has aged pretty well and which has developed a cachet among certain knowledgeable aficionados. It has a lot of venerability and both nostalgic and practical appeal -- to a sizable MINORITY of shooters.

    DA/SA designs have never really managed to grab anything like so large a segment of the shooting public with the dyed-in-the-wool appeal of the 1911 -- and/or their center of appeal has always been those "progressive" shooters who wanted something with more features and creature comforts than the 1911 which was one of the two natural alternatives to the DA/SA auto. (The other being revolvers.)

    So the fan base of the DA/SA designs is the very same group of shooters (minus a very small number of holdouts) who were not viscerally adhered to the 1911 or revolver and thus would be most likely to gravitate to the newer "safe-action" design of the Glock and related striker-fired guns.
     
  18. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,941
    The Steyr M pistols don't, AFAIK.
     
  19. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,570
    Location:
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Wasn't aware of that one, but it certainly is an exception to the rule. Also, has there ever been a reported incident of a sear failure resulting in a discharge from one of these?
     
  20. tarosean

    tarosean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    5,402
    Location:
    TX
    We now have generations of shooters who know nothing but poly striker guns.
     
  21. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,778
    Location:
    Central PA
    Right! That's what they see cops, self-defense trainers, competition masters/grand-masters (and of course the movie and TV characters) using, so why not give those a try? While they might go looking for a specific gun make and model that they once saw in a magazine and just really liked, or that their dad had, etc, they aren't very likely to go looking for a less currently common style of operation. There are probably many gun buyers who never even noticed (specifically, consciously, with introspection toward the why and how of it) that their Glock doesn't have a hammer like a 1911 does. Who cares? It works!
     
  22. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,564
    I guess if you count some very young shooters. Poly striker guns weren't popular until less than 25 years ago. Not really enough time for "generations" to develop.


    To answer the OP, they don't exist because their isn't a market to support them, or at least the makers don't think that there is.

    As to what people go out looking for, my time in gun stores suggests that most people aren't particularly knowledgeable and rely a lot on what they person behind the counter is pushing. Much as I might if I bought some home appliance or the like.
     
  23. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,261
    Around my parts, 25 years is plenty for a second generation old enough to shoot polymer...

    Times change. I've got a little of every action type. Each has their own characteristics and personalities. It all comes down to training.
     
  24. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    5,773
    Location:
    Hastings, Michigan
    I'm not a big fan of striker fired guns myself. I'm fond of my Smith 469 DA/SA. With the bobbed hammer, there is nothing to get snagged on clothes or whatever.

    I am one if those weird ones who prefer the heavy 1st shot and easier follow up shots. If I have to shoot something, that heavy pull gives me a few milliseconds of synapses firing to determine whether or not I need to follow through. Follow up shots, if any, are much easier and I don't need to go through the decision making process. Well, I go through a different decision making process anyway.

    I they made a slim, lightweight, subcompact, single stack DA/SA, I'd seriously be interested. But I won't be holding my breath waiting.
     
  25. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,681
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    And to a large extent so is Massad Ayoob, or at least that's what his book Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry, 2nd Edition suggests. Copyright 2012, originally published 2007. I'm pretty sure Massad had fired a few striker fired pistols by the publishing date. He mentions installing the NY Trigger with the eight pound trigger pull on his striker fired carry guns and even using that set-up in competition and winning.

    I have both a striker fired and a DA/SA hammer fired pistol. Different days call for different guns and different triggers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page