Why Only Lee?

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I like Lee die's for loading handgun cartridges because they are easier to work with. But for bottle neck cartridges, I much prefer using RCBS comp. die's.

So far as shell holder's are concerned, I could care less if the die maker includes them in the die set, because I prefer using Hornady shell holders anyway, they seem to be more precision to me. I've noticed that when I'm resizing, that the Hornady shell holder will let me know if the case has any buldges or head problems because the brass will not slide in easily, where as with Lee and RCBS the shell holder's seem a bit sloppy. Just me I guess?
 
I use some Lee dies, and getting a shellholder with the set is a convenience. But I don't mind buying one separately, especially since I like RCBS and Hornady shellholders better.

If you use a progressive press like a LNL AP, you don't need a shellholder anyway, right? Or if you've loaded 30-06 forever and you start loading 25-06, you don't need another one.

So looks like I'm in the "I'll decide if I want to pay for a shellholder when I buy dies" school. Same as the "keep your combo; I'll decide if I want fries" school.
 
I like having the shellholder included with the dies, because then I have one with each die set. So what if my 40, 9mm, and 9x18 die sets all have the same shellholder in them? When I grab the box, it has everything I need inside.
 
LEE is a good company. Their better dies work for me, because mine are locked down . I also like getting everything in one "die package".
I hate it when the shipping cost is more than the part cost.
Just me I guess?
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NOPE, I HATE Lee universal pistol case holders. Having extra case holders lets me modify the d@#^ holder with shim stock .
 
Back to the original question on shell holder, not die rings.

Gloob has the first half of the answer.

The other half is the possibility that die manufacturers are speculating that their dies may be used on a progressive press, and thus, requiring a shell plate rather than a shell holder, which would simply be a waste.

Lost Sheep
 
I have numerous resources locally for all of my needs. I prefer to spend the extra few $$ and support the local economy. I enjoy getting to know the owners of local gun shops and making friends, its part of my enjoyment. One particular gun shop actually orders in special items for me and they sell cheaper than I could buy it for. I don't have to pay shipping and reap the benefit of their FFL discount. I could save 5% or 10% and I do order online at times, however, all of our local business NEED local business to stay afloat, employ people, pay taxes, and help get us all out of a recession. I never have a problem finding a shell holder, besides, I don't plan on buying another caliber, what I have works for me and that's all that counts.
 
I like Lee dies as they fit my budget and have never let me down. I do have some other dies, RCBS, and Lyman. But that was only because the store I go to had sold out of the Lee dies I wanted. First time I bought dies other than Lee I had to go back and get a shell holder.
 
"Maybe reloading with (other) dies (than Lee's) might produce better ammo."

Not really. I've measured and tested the output of quite a few dies of all current and some long gone brands. On average, there is as much variation between individual dies of the same brand and type as between brands. I've found that not only do Lee's dies work as well as any, they are often a small bit better. After some 45+ years of reloading, I haven't had a 'favorite' brand of anything for a very long time. I sift and sort between individual dies to make the working set I want and that almost always gives me a mix of brands.

Lee's collet neck die and their Factory Crimp Dies are the best of their types available at any price, IMHO. Of course they must be used correctly to work correctly but that applies to anything, right?

Progressive presses may constitute 2-4 out of every hundred presses sold and no dies ever included shell holders until Lee started doing so with their Pacesetter and Delux sets a few years back so I doubt the possibility of progressive shell plates are a serious consideration to die makers.

I don't mind having extra shell holders; what I do mind is paying MORE for sets that give LESS and then having to pay another $7-9 to get one! It costs virtually nothing to make shell holders on modern automated machinery.

A LOT of highly skilled reloaders actually prefer Lee's "O" (semi) lock rings; they are different from others and that seems to throw some people off but it appears to be more of a problem in their minds or fumbly fingers than in how well the soft rings actually work.

Bottom line, all of our die makers do quite well so it's not a matter of 'quality'. Each of us makes his own choice of features he likes and pays what it takes to get there. :)
 
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A LOT of highly skilled reloaders actually prefer Lee's "O" (semi) lock rings; they are different from others and that seems to throw some people off but it appears to be more of a problem in their minds or fumbly fingers than in how well the soft rings actually work.
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This^

That was me about 10 years ago, I thought like many others that the lee so-called-lock-rings were junk. Then I got my first lee turret press. In case some don't know it, you are forced to use the lee rings on the turret. The other brands are too big, in their overall diameter! Once I figured out how they work(ed), I actually prefer them.

Need it explained? The O ring is exactly the right diameter to crush when the die and ring are tightened against the top of the press or turret. This puts side force on the lock ring and die, holding it securely. You don't really have to crank the die down hard to get it to grip the die. Removing the die does not relax the grip. In fact, it's downright difficult to turn the ring on the die once it's set. You can remove the die and replace it, everything remains set as long as you ONLY USE THE RING TO TURN THE DIE BACK INTO THE PRESS/TURRET!

For you single stage guys, a little care on how you use the lee rings, you'll see how good they work. For us turret users, once set, they remain in the turret.

The Lee RGB dies do NOT include the shell holder. Those are the economy sets, no powder scoop either.
 
Everything I had to say has almost been said. I perfer Lee dies & perfer the lock ring. If I switch the die from one press to another then it needs adjusted so Lee's is easier.

I normally don't buy fries or drink but if I want them I don't mind saveing 2 dimes to order them together. I have several of the same holders but it is cheaper for me to buy the sets then piece it together.

You are paying for everything in the set. Only with Lee it seems free because you get so much more for your money.
 
I suppose having 49 extra shell holders that one does not need can always be a GOOD THING!

For instance, if one is stuck on ice with one wheel spinning, they can use the shell holders for TRACTION between the tire and ice! That, in itself would pay for them all if it saved the driver from being late to his first day on the job as President of the New York Stock Exchange (for example).:eek:
 
snuffy said:
For you single stage guys, a little care on how you use the lee rings, you'll see how good they work. For us turret users, once set, they remain in the turret.

.
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I agree, if one is using a Lee turret press, one of the presses with a tool head, or a press with a bushing arrangement (Lee Breech Loack or Hornady L-N-L), the Lee lock rings work just fine. Jam the ring against the tool head and never turn the die again unless you want to change the adjustment.

But I disagree with their use on conventional, threaded single stage press. It is not if, but when you will lose your die setting while turning the die in and out of the press. This will occur at the most inopportune time and cause grief in having to disassemble a bunch of rounds.

Having used Lee lock rings extensively in the past and with working with precision equipment my entire career, precision settings cannot be maintained without positive locks.

Of course, if you like to spend the time checking or reseting your dies at each use, then have at it. I would rather get on with reloading.

I have continued to use Lee lock rings in a few limited applications. My powder cop die has one as it gets reset with each cartridge change on the progressive. Works fine and why waste a good split ring in this application.

I use them on my powder measures. No precision adjustment needed and I can hand snug the Lee lock ring against the stand and the powder measure stays put. I can hand loosen it later when changing powder measures.

It is interesting that Lee has introduced a Breech lock bushing with a split lock ring as part of the bushing.
 
cfullgraf said:
Lee has introduced a Breech lock bushing with a split lock ring as part of the bushing.
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Now, why can't Lee sell just the lock rings? :scrutiny:
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Now, why can't Lee sell just the lock rings?
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I know there is an industrial source for those locking rings and also split locking stop nuts, but I having a bad senior moment trying to remember who the suppliers were and how they are listed.
 
Well, in almost 30 years of reloading with Lee dies (with Lee lockrings) I've never had a die work loose. Mebbe 'cause I'm a lifelong mechanic/machinist and I have used hand tools all my life, but Lee stuff works fine for me. No, I don't use a wrench or God forbid, pliers, on the Lee rings, just finger tight. I bought a set of RCBS dies that had those "real" lockrings on them and had to repair the threads on the die exterior before they could be used. Some ya-hoo must have used a 18" wrench tightening the lock ring (badly distorted threads) and the set screw on the side of the ring was tight enough to gouge flats in the threads. Used a lot of Kroil to loosen things up and had to chase the threads to make the dies usable. I now just use some stainless 7/8-14 lock nuts (thin) on my single stage, and some I customized (knocked the corners off) on my turret. If you use a wrench on the Lee lockrings you stand a good chance of distorting/striping the threads in the aluminum. In my estimation, lock rings don't make or break the quality/usibility of a die set. And yep, I've got dies from several manufacturers (Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Pacific, Herter's, Lyman)...

BTW McMaster-Carr sells one piece split threaded collars 7/8-14 for $4.89 each http://www.mcmaster.com/#locking-rings/=fflnjx
 
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"I suppose having 49 extra shell holders that one does not need can always be a GOOD THING!"

Friendly, if another shell holder is too much of a good thing we can always pay more and get a brand that helpfully doesn't include a 'surplus to our needs' shell holder, right? ;)
 
I have dies that are over 40 years old and the rings are still good and work good! I like them be caws if I want a little more crimp I do NOT need to get the Allen wench to change them.
 
I don't know why Lee is the only brand that includes a shell holder. I also don't worry about it because I have the 11 piece shell holder set.

And all my lock rings get replaced with Hornady cross bolt lock rings.
 
While most of my dies are Lee, I do have RCBS and Hornady dies and there are pros and cons to all of them. BUT I have fewer issues with the Lee. I always wondered why the store I buy my reloading stuff sold RCBS decapping pins, then I found out when I broke one, I've never broken a Lee decapping pin. The non-Lee locking rings are a pain as I never seem to have an Allen wrench when I need it. I've never had Lee locking rings come loose. My biggest problem with Lee is with their shellholders. They like to combine more calibers that their shellholders can use instead of making caliber specific holders. I recently started loading for .480 Ruger for which Lee supplies their #5 shellholder. Roughly 50% of the Hornady .480 cases wouldn't fit. Calling Lee they blamed Hornady and offered to grind my shellholder to fit. I went to my LGS and bought a RCBS shellholder for .480 (#40) which fit all the cases. So, while I really like their dies, Lee shellholders could be better.
 
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