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Why open carry is bad.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by fjolnirsson, May 6, 2004.

?

Why is open carry bad?

  1. I don't want to spook the soccer moms.

    37 vote(s)
    24.7%
  2. I fear the LEO reaction.

    50 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Criminals would target me.

    41 vote(s)
    27.3%
  4. Undecided or gut reaction.

    22 vote(s)
    14.7%
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  1. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    whoaa nelly!!

    i didnt say that i fully agreed with that statement WA.

    heres why i think the AWB is an infringment of the 2nd Am:

    1. it is based on lies, myths, and more lies.

    2. it has done nothing to prevent crimes from happening

    3. any law that affects matters covered by the Bill of Rights and Constitution that is based on lies is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

    4. unconstitutional laws are an infringement of rights, imho.


    now, the AWB has probably done a lot for the economy of gunshops, as it has driven up the costs of firearms with cosmetic features and made it so that poor folk like myself cant afford them.

    i almost forgot....WA, what do you define the "Bear Arms" part of the 2nd as? the "Keep" part is easy, the ownership and possession of arms. but what does 'bearing' them mean?
     
  2. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Epithets like that generally "turn off" fence sitting moderates (which I am dying to see defined)..

    An assumption, based solely on your own personal reactions. An accurate summation would be that it might well turn off some, while having no effect or even being seen as humorous by others OR even causing some to stop and think. Those many, many things are what it would "generally" cause a fence-sitting moderate(those would be the people who vote "I don't know" in polls, say "I don't want to take sides" on issues that require one either step up or step aside or those who say "Gee, I wouldn't wanna offend anyone...")to do.

    Reasoning people dont resort to epithets by the way..

    That's an absurd claim. Of course we do, regularly. Especially when amongst those who agree on an issue or when a well placed epithet can have the desired result...such as here.

    I dont believe that the second am gives anyone the right to carry any gun they want in any fashion at any time.

    Then you're(almost) wrong. I doubt many would claim it gives a violent felon such a right but then i don't think you were even thinking of such.

    I dont think the Brady bill is violative of the 2nd Am..

    Then you're wrong, period. But still entitled to an opinion.

    I dont even believe that even in well established contsitutional tems the so called Assault weapons ban (as to cosmetic features only) would violate the most expansive reading of the 2nd (stupid and misguided as it is)..

    Then you're wrong. Amazingly so.

    Guess that makes me a sheeple

    Nope, just makes you wrong. The fact you think about these issues independent of a controlling influence from the opinions of a peer group removes you from sheeple status. You're halfway home!
     
  3. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    I prefer folks not knowing I'm carrying. I'm a big proponent of stealth and the element of surprise, especially when it is in my favor.

    However, if I'm riding a horse down a rural farm to market road I'd prefer to have the option to carry openly. There are fewer soccer moms who would be intimidated or just plain skeert out in the country.


    Regards,
    Rabbit.
     
  4. MeekandMild

    MeekandMild Member

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    Well, I don't know if I CAN explain it if your Mama didn't take the time to raise you so you could see it right off. But I will try. :rolleyes:

    You don't wear your boots in the house because you're not the one having to clean up the mud and it ticks off the rest of us who have to walk through it, not to mention whoever has to clean up after your messes. You don't wear your hat at the table so the rest of us can look into your eyes when you try to talk to us. (And don't talk with your mouth full of food!)

    You don't open carry in town because sometimes your brother or sister or neighbor might want to leave their pistol at home. So if you are carrying open and some thug comes up and says, 'well I need to rob somebody' they are going see you with a pistol and will turn around and pick on your brother or sister or neighbor. Everybody with any raising at all knows they are their brother's keeper and they love their neighbor as theyself.

    So open carry is not only rude and impolite it is downright uncharitable as well. Not to mention the fact that somebody is liable to jack slap you for putting on airs.
     
  5. Pumpkinheaver

    Pumpkinheaver Member

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    Someone is up to no good andI have a visiable gun. who do you think is gonna get shot first?
     
  6. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    poll needed to include the option "I dont agree open carry is bad"

    :neener:
     
  7. sm

    sm member

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    None of the above.

    Not allowed in my State.
    Even so , I prefer to be low profile and have the element of surprise.

    Grin as you walk out of the smoke , keeps 'em guessing and makes them wonder what the hell you will do next - Dave Robicheaux
    a character from a book...Author's name escapes me, as does the book title. I like the line tho' and the idea behind it. :)
     
  8. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Well spiffy, all your comments go to the efficacy of the law as opposed to its constituionality...stupid laws can be constituional, and I have yet to see how not allowing a bayonet lug is unconstituional as opposed to plain dumb.

    Well 2nd A, id respond to that ifin I knew what you are saying...

    And I daresay I am dying to see how you argue the unconstituionality of the "cosmetic' portions of the ban

    And thanks for not including me in your category of sheeple...its so nice to be patronized...:barf:

    WildimgonnabeaonemancampaignagainstthewordsheepleandalltheinvectiveiseeAlaska
     
  9. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    [parody] CONGRESS PASSES LAW PROHIBITING THE PRODUCTION OF 'ASSAULT HIP-HOP MUSIC'.

    AHHM is defined as "Music with a driving bass beat that has at least two of the following:
    > anger towards law enforcement officers
    > use of the expression 'bling-bling'
    > unintelligible ebonics slang
    > band members with more than one criminal conviction

    Production of this AHHM will be prohibited after June 1, 2004. All existing 'pre-ban' AHHM will be legal to own, possess and listen to. Record companies will not be allowed to manufacture recordings of AHHM after 6/1/2004 for sale in this country. They may export them to other countries that have not banned AHHM.

    Supporters of the AHHM-ban argue that listeners of Assault Hip Hop Music are more likely to wear pants sagging off their behinds, sideways ball caps, gold caps, and suffer from bad back injuries caused by wearing excessive amounts of 'bling-bling' around their necks.

    Concerned mothers were heard sharing accounts of taking their young children to expensive chiropracters and having to hear their offspring whine and complain about how sore their backs and necks were.

    Some analysts hypothesize that AHHM is also responsible for todays youth refusing to smile for family pictures, instead they put on their darksest scowl and flash supposed gang signs for holiday pictures. Such pictures may go unnoticed until sent to an unsuspecting family member. Grandparents usually experience the worst reactions, and some have claimed they caused the elderly patriarchs and matriarchs to go into cardiac arrest, but those claims are so far unfounded.

    [end parody]


    *sorry, got carried away there for a few minutes..... now, WA, would the above fictional ban be 'unconstitutional'?
     
  10. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Yep...

    Nice parody by the way...but poor analogy...

    WildmissinthepointspiffAlaska
     
  11. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    it should be MY choice if i want to buy a semi automatic rifle that has a pistol grip, detachable magazine, threaded barrel, bayonet lug, and grenade launcher. so waht if i cant find any grenades at my local gunshop to buy?! it looks cool, dammit!

    just like it should be someones personal choice to listen to AHHM if they desire. to have those choices removed because legislators believed the lie that AW's are deadlier than non-AW's is unconstitutional.
     
  12. PAOLO721

    PAOLO721 Member

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    Simply stated, concealed carry is tactically superior to open carry.
     
  13. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Just becasue ya want it doenst mean its constituionally protected.

    Again stupid laws can be cinstituional...

    your analogy BANS the speech which is constituionally protected...unconstituional...

    the AWB only prohibits cosmetic aspects...the weapon itself is not banned...merely ...hmm...dare I say it...well regulated...

    Here let me posit it this way...if all military style weapons were REQUIRED to be threaded for a flash hider...would you say that was unconstituional..

    Or even better...lets say a law was passed REQUIRING suppressors be used when shooting...unconstituional?

    WildriddlemethisbatmanAlaska
     
  14. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    you're making my brain work too hard today.

    you owe me at least a magazine or two through a subgun.



    like i said, its my humble opinion that the AWB is unconstitutional. i dont have to back up ALL of my opinions with facts, do i?

    :neener:
     
  15. MaterDei

    MaterDei Member

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    I must say that I am surprised by the results... so far.

    I don't fear LEOs and I don't fear soccer moms. I do, however, want the bad guys not knowing that I am packing.

    Michael
     
  16. jobu07

    jobu07 Member

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    Eh, here's my 2 cents. FWIW I think that you should be able to carry however the heck you want to carry. Concealed, open, it's all good. My choice, my opinion, my guns. Carry it how you want.
     
  17. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Absolutely not, a large number of second amendment absolutists and their opposite numbers on the other side feel the same way :):neener: :what:

    WildonlyonemagferyouAlaska
     
  18. MoNsTeR

    MoNsTeR Member

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    All of the above
     
  19. ksnecktieman

    ksnecktieman Member

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    wild alaska? Will you give me your explanation of what the second amendment means please? I think it is a pretty plain line of 27 words that would be difficult to misinterpret.
     
  20. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    yet we have people who do not understand it and do not adhere to it and infringe peoples right coast to coast and beyound, AK and HI.

    what does the 2nd Amendmant say about arms yet what do we have law wise for say machine guns,"semi automatic assault weapons" :rolleyes:,SBR's,paperwork,background check,Gun Registration and lets not forget Age descrimination or bigotry depending on how you look at it.

    JOHN KERRY:I support the second ammendment,I hunt. rating from brady bunch 100%:rolleyes:

    I wish I lived in a state that allowed full-auto or SBR's and silencers I am lucky to have semi automatic rifles with remotely evil features. thinking of moving to nicer state law and weather wise. costly though emphasises freedom is not free.

    why should LEO's and Organized militia and certain state officials and politicians(especially in states citizens/unorganized militia is not allowed) be allowed rights,firearms,CCW and open carry yet unorganized militia or average citizen be denied such right.

    Iowa Constition:
    http://www.legis.state.ia.us/Constitution.html

    ARTICLE I.
    BILL OF RIGHTS.

    Rights of persons. SECTION 1. All men and women are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inalienable rights--among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

    Laws uniform. SEC. 6. All laws of a general nature shall have a uniform operation; the general assembly shall not grant to any citizen, or class of citizens, privileges or immunities, which, upon the same terms shall not equally belong to all citizens.

    definition of class:To grouped or classed,
    The genus or famiky under which it classes. --Tatham.

    Class \Class\ (kl[.a]s), n. [F. classe, fr. L. classis class,
    collection, fleet; akin to Gr. klh^sis a calling, kalei^n to
    call, E. claim, haul.]
    1. A group of individuals ranked together as possessing
    common characteristics; as, the different classes of
    society; the educated class; the lower classes.

    2. A number of students in a school or college, of the same
    standing, or pursuing the same studies.

    3. A comprehensive division of animate or inanimate objects,
    grouped together on account of their common
    characteristics, in any classification in natural science,
    and subdivided into orders, families, tribes, genera, etc.

    I think strongly people should have the right to open carry just as they should have the right to CCW whether they be LEO or civilian or some other class.

    whats bad about open carry outside of badguys. park,countryside outside of city or a small city or small population or peacefull city low crime no bad guys.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2004
  21. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Well 2nd A, id respond to that ifin I knew what you are saying...

    A) It's just your opinion of constituionality. AND it is your job to show how it IS constitutional. I'd like to see how you can do that in regards to a federal ban targeting cosmetic features of the type found on personal military weapons the 2A is referring to...

    B) You assume it offends people. That is an assumption. Certainly it may but it may, and does, also have other effects. Your generalization is just that, a generalization.

    C) I gave you a functional definition of fence-sitting-moderates.

    D) Saying you are categorically wrong is patronizing? I thought it was simply telling you you are wrong.

    There, clear as mud now?
     
  22. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    Excuse me for being late to the party and posting 'on topic'.

    I do not like the restriction on open carry, because it means that unintentionally failing to conceal is a misdemeanor. I would like to leave it that I may intend to conceal and have a problem occasionally. I also do not appreciate the law determining how I dress or what size and caliber of gun I choose to carry.

    My choice would be to carry concealed because I don't think bad guys should ever be confident who is armed and who is not.

    As far as soccer moms go, I don't believe they generally have a problem with armed police officers, and I deserve to be regarded as benign in the same way. If open carry or the knowledge that honest people often carry concealed legally were more endemic, what people might think would be a non-issue.


    I do not agree with any distinction made between an LEO carrying with full public knowledge and my right to carry in self defense. My right to carry existed long before the existence of police forces, and there is no way I am going to agree that suddenly the police take precedence.

    I have a license and carry concealed only because I don't have any choice. I don't accept that and never will. I would definitely participate in any effort to repeal the whole house of cards that infringes upon my rights to carry as I wish to. As long as my gun stays in its holster, everyone else can just butt out, except to the extent that they would have the same issue with an LEO.
     
  23. Triad

    Triad Member

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    Meek, keep reachiing, something that actually makes sense and can be defended logically might come within your grasp.:rolleyes:
     
  24. J Miller

    J Miller Member

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    I didn't vote in the poll since you didn't have a disenting choice.

    ( X) I don't belive open cary is bad at all. If I act like a responsible person there will be no problems.


    I open caried when I lived in AZ....legally. I did not feel the need to jump through the hoops and beg the State's blessing for doing what was already legal.
    I never had any trouble, not once was I ever hassled by any LEO, nor was I ever "targeted" by any criminals. I carried on city streets while riding my bicycle, while shopping and even in banks. The only comments I ever got was from those that were scared because my 1911's were cocked and locked.

    It's my belief that those who open cary, even legally, and get hasseled by LEO's have done something that attracted their attention.

    I actually prefer open cary to the paranoia of the concealed cary mindset.

    But that's just me.

    Joe
     
  25. manyironsinfire

    manyironsinfire Member

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    I read an article awhile back that the baddies feared a private citizen with a gun much more so then they did an LEO, Simply because a citizen was more likely to shoot them. That's why I dont believe in open carry!!!!We have to be by law, reactive. Surprise is our only comfort.
     
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