Why should we own M1 Carbines?

[Nugilum]

OK, before I inadvertently start a flame thread let me explain...

I understand that the M1 Carbine was one of the rifles issued to our support US troops in WWII, and many US soldiers loved using this rifle instead of a M1. I also know that this rifle has saved tens of thousands of lives world-wide within the past 60+ years.

For me, I really don’t see the advantage of owning a M1 Carbine today. What would be the advantage of having a Carbine over an AK, or an AR, or even a .30 WCF (.30-30 Win)? What is the advantage of having a rifle whose ballistics are comparable to a .357 Magnum handgun? What other advantages exist with this rifle have that other rifles don’t?

Play nice now...

Before people start freaking out, I do own one. I inherited my grandfather’s M1 carbine he purchased from the DCM in 1962 for $62.00.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

There isn't a lot, other than nostalgia.

But the answer is, the same as any other pistol cal carbine, a low-recoil bullet hose, which is most useful in full-auto. So absent a full-auto gun, there's really no reason for it, except for the recoil sensitive (i.e. the wifey's gun).

 

[ArmedBear]

It's a fun toy.

And since it's a pistol-class round, nobody harps on its accuracy or lack thereof.

With the similar Mini-14, people bitch that the .223 round isn't accurate enough, because it's a varmint cartridge and we expect accuracy from a .223.

So there you go. It's a fun toy with history, and it quite lives up to low expectations.

 

[1KPerDay]

If you don't like your carbine send it to me. I'll pay double what your dad paid.

 

[skinewmexico]

I can't, because my dad would roll over in his grave. He hated the M1 carbine, said he saw a lot of guys killed because of it.

 

[Slamfire]

He hated the M1 carbine, said he saw a lot of guys killed because of it.

It would be interesting to know more about that.

Our elderest Gun Club Officer is a veteran of the Okinawa and Iwo Jima invasions. He carried a M1 carbine. Just this month he expressed to me his frustration with the thing. He was upset that it was not accurate enough to hit the enemy at 200 yards. He personally sighted his carbine in before he shipped, said he took it back to the range armorers and told them where it was hitting, and they adjusted it until he was satisfied. Even with that, he claimed while he shot at Japanese 200 yards distant, he had no expectation of hitting one. (his exact statement was much more animated )

A 101 Airborne veteran I know, told me the carbine was a great gun to play solider, but when his unit was told to prepare for an airdrop into Cuba, (Cuban Missile Crisis), he traded his carbine in for a M1 Garand.

The carbine was a pistol substitute. It is unfortunate that the carbine was so weight optimized that it could not fire a more powerful round.

I wonder how it would have faired if it was chambered for something like a 10mm Magnum. Still might be around in one shape or another.

 

[greyling22]

lightweight 30rd capacity, 357 ballistics? Wouldn't be my first choice to take to the battlefield, but around the house/ranch/apartment? who wouldn't want one? you don't have overpenetration problems like a 223, or 30-06 it's not so "scary" looking if your friend sees it in the corner. And I have yet to ever hear people whining about the power of a 357 mag.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

They are fun to shoot and have a great history.

They are very light too, but I see no advantage of an M1 Carbine over an AR15 carbine.

you don't have overpenetration problems like a 223

What overpenetration issues?

 

[mljdeckard]

Rocky, you're my local buddy, BUT,

There's a big difference between people using an AR for HD, loaded with Hornady TAP, and a guy who gets his first AR, knows absolutely nothing about it, and loads it up with the cheapest 62 gr steel-core he can find, because 'it's the same stuff soldiers use, so it must be good enough for me.' (Or a guy who buys an AK knock-off, and loads it with Wolf FMJ.) An AR absolutely CAN overpenetrate when you use 'regular' military ammo, which is intended to be able to shred cars. An AR is good for HD IF you use the correct ammo. I've killed enough medium sized animals with 5.56 to know that you don't want to be behind that target. I don't care what box-o-truth says. All rounds can overpenetrate. Some are much more likely to do this than others. IN THE HOUSE, I'm using something other than a rifle cartridge. When I may or may not be able to control the trajectory, and I am responsible for where that round goes, I want something else.

I have my grandfather's Inland, which he paid $30 dollars for when he joined the NRA in the late 50s, I think. I keep two mags of Winchester JHP in a pouch on the butt, it's my wife's primary and my backup. (To my 870, loaded with #4 buck.) She can handle and shoot it comfortably, bone stock. The only thing I wish I had was night sight inserts, I've poked around for them, but no one seems to make them for the carbine.

I'm not a fan of pistol rounds for PD/HD in general, they are all inadequate, but the .357 is about as good as they get. .30 carbine gives energy comparable to a .357 mag out of the rifle barrel, without the guaranteed hearing damage you would get from a .357 revolver indoors. This setup is 15 rounds, plus another 15 with a fast reload. (which my wife CAN do one-handed, very quickly,) Comparable carbines, like a Ruger .44, or lever guns in other heavy pistol cartridges are also good compromises.

 

[lencac]

I can think of several reasons. 1) M1 carbines are just plain cool. 2) They are cheap to shoot and reload for. 3) Because of the low recoil they are perfect for young adults and "girlfriends" to learn the basics of shooting. 4) Although they use a pistol cartridge they still provide much greater range than a pistol. 5) If legislation is enacted to control or ban pistols the M1 is still a rifle. 6) M1's because of their compact size and light weight are perfect for packing around and general use. 7) 15 rd. magazines and quick reloading make it a very weildy HD/PD weapon.

 

[skinewmexico]

It would be interesting to know more about that.

Yes it would, but he didn't talk, other than to say they were terrible, and all the guys he knew dropped them first chance, and picked up a Garand.

 

[feedthehogs]

Because you can.
What else really matters in a free society?

 

[MikeKeyW]

First PDW

You might say the M1 carbine was the first PDW, personal defense weapon. Look at it this way, small, light and handy and a pistol was chambered for the same round (a lot later and a revolver), like the P90 and FN 5-7 or that HK that I'm having a senior moment with what it's called. Israel, who has some of the best weapons around, still fields the M1 Carbine in limited amounts. In a urban CQB environment it comes into its own, I really love my paratrooper model.

 

[Speedo66]

My father, who was in the Third Armored Div. armored infantry in WWII Germany bad mouthed it everytime he saw one. Said it lacked knock down power compared to the M1 rifle. No doubt he was right.

That being said, it's a nice, light, accurate at short range, easy recoiling rifle.

It's allowed at some outdoor pistol only ranges, mine included.

Ammo, while not cheap, is less expensive than most besides iron curtain surplus.

It's traditional wood and parkerized metal, some what of a rarity today in a military weapon, and I enjoy shooting it. Don't mind not getting pounded if I shoot 50 rounds.

If you think of it in it's military role, to be a more accurate "pistol", it works fine.

 

[briang2ad]

hmmm...

Its fun.

It is VERY lightweight. If the stuff HTF, you could carry it anywhere, all the time , forever.

It is more accurate than a pistol, and likely as accurate as an AK.

Its size is perfect in a building.

The recoil is VERY light - better to get back on target.

I think at close range, effectiveness is VERY good. Stories of Chinese winter clothing stopping the round just don't wash.

Ammo is now not that much more than AK. I had a choice back in the 90s to get an SKS paratrooper or a Carbine for $50 more. Now, I have both, but sometimes I wish I had another Carbine. (But the SKS is pretty nie and accurate).

 

[USSR]

I really don’t see the advantage of owning a M1 Carbine today.

I guess it's all in how it's configured.

Don

 

[Rupestris]

Believe it or not, the Detroit Police Department still has M1 Carbines and uses them. Primarily for training but they do use them in rare situations for field work.

Personally, I think its because the city is so poorly run and has been on the verge of penniless for so long, they can't afford to upgrade and equip all vehicles with AR-15/M-16's.

If its good enough for the DPD...

 

[Sunray]

"...the similar Mini-14..." In the case of the Mini-14, it's the rifle that's not accurate enough. With an M1 Carbine, it was the ammo that wasn't up to snuff.
"...lacked knock down power compared to the M1 rifle..." That's an apples and oranges comparison. A 150 grain fmj bullet at 2800fps will always have more "power" than a 110 grain fmj bullet at 1900fps. The Carbine was never intended to have "knock down power" at 200 yards. Its sole purpose was to give the troopies who would have been previously issued a pistol, a long gun. It's far easier to train a non-shooter(as most W.W. II troopies were, despite the myth) to shoot a rifle well enough to defend himself than it is a handgun.
"...as accurate as an AK..." Far more accurate than an AK. Certainly more accurate than an SKS. Neither of them were made for accuracy.
"...they use a pistol cartridge..." The .30 Carbine is not a pistol cartridge. Never was and never will be. Despite the attempts to make it one. It's a carbine cartridge.
"...a pistol was chambered for the same round..." The .30 Carbine out of a handgun makes a .357 look like a pop gun. Mind you, none of the semi-auto handguns chambered in it worked very well.

 

[Jeff F]

The .30 Carbine out of a handgun makes a .357 look like a pop gun.

I'd have to agree with that statement. I got to shoot a Black-hawk chambered in .30 carbine and it was wicked. Defiantly a high intensity round in a handgun.

 

[spuscg]

because there cool

and because obama wants to ban it

 

[lencac]

It's all about the configuration

Who said they aren't accurate. This is at 100 yrds.

 

[lencac]

I got to shoot a Black-hawk chambered in .30 carbine and it was wicked.

I agree. I shot a Ruger Vequero chambered in .30 carbine. It was quite impressive.

 

[MikeKeyW]

humm, wonder how it compares with the 32-20 and that new 32 mag in comparable revolvers?

 

[SamG.]

I believe the question should be " Why shouldn't we own M1 Carbines"
Because hey, I don't think there is a gun that we shouldn't own.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Most people who disparage the M1 Carbine do so out of ignorance. The carbine was designed to be an alternative to a handgun. It was never intended to be a replacement for a rifle. People forget this.

Would you try and make a 200 yard shot with a 1911? No. If you need to make 200 yard shots, get a rifle. The M1 Carbine was intended to be used by officers and rear eschelon troops that wanted a little more than what a 1911 could offer, but didnt want to have to deal with a Garand.