Oh, please
why so many 'cops' in DC with revolvers
- Thread starter wtr100
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Oh, please
I'm not sure people visiting DC would feel less safe around LE than not. I mean...this is DC we're talking about.
Renegade Ziggy
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When I worked security we were only allowed 38's also..don't understand why they can't get with the times. But honestly a pistol is a pistol, just happy to have had one.
I don't believe he has a problem with that, just noting how odd it is to see cops (or security) still carrying revolvers.
I don't believe he has a problem with that, just noting how odd it is to see cops (or security) still carrying revolvers.
just unusual - revolver are out of favor with coperators around hereAnd the problem with that is?
hell even the guys emptying cash machines seem to have glock 17's , beat to hell 17's to be sure - the exception seems to be Chicago PD Sergeants, most of which seem to have a walrus mustache too, that must be grandfathered into being allowed revolvers
i have no problem with any 'private police' or even real police having to check out weapons from base camp or only being allowed to carry when on they're not clock unless they do whatever the rest of us workers and pheasants (or is that peasants) have to do
says some pigs are not more equal that other might be inappropriate so I won't
oh and assuredly cops are not on the clock more than they're on it
In D.C. armed security guards are known as "Special Police Officers" and they carry 38 spl revolvers. These are the folks you see guarding office buildings and museums. SPOs have limited authority to make arrests on employer property and are not allowed to take the gun home. The Metropolitan Police Department officers carry Glock 17s.
BrotherFrankie
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Bikewer
Member
We have the same situation here in the St. Louis area, police agencies universally carry semi-autos, while the various sorts of watchmen, security guards, armored-car drivers and so forth are limited to revolvers.
When I started my career in '68, revolvers were it. I recall reading about a few smaller (and mostly Wester) departments that were flirting with autos back then, mostly the M1911. At the time, the available ammo was pretty much FMJ, and all us police officers knew that autos were "not reliable". (Never mind that the military didn't seem to have any problems...)
I carried a .357 wheelgun for about 15 years. We transitioned to the Glock M23 somewhere in the mid-80s.
The primary motivating factor back then was not demonstrations of auto expertise on TV, but rather that criminals were becoming better armed.
When I started, the typical "street" gun was an ancient "owl's head" revolver in .32 or .38 S&W. Occasionally a crudely-sawn-off shotgun.
However, the rising gang problem and the lucrative drug trade meant that folks were getting upgraded weapons, and police officers were increasingly running into criminals armed with high-capacity auto pistols and such.
So, there was quite a lot of pressure to ditch the revolvers, and a lot of discussion about same.
Thoughts about officers "spraying and praying" and so forth.
My memory may be foggy, but I seem to recall the FBI as the first agency to officially adopt an auto. The first local outfit was the Illinois State Patrol, who went to a S&W 9mm. Our local ST. Louis PD went to the Berretta 9mm, and the county guys went the S&W route as well.
When I started my career in '68, revolvers were it. I recall reading about a few smaller (and mostly Wester) departments that were flirting with autos back then, mostly the M1911. At the time, the available ammo was pretty much FMJ, and all us police officers knew that autos were "not reliable". (Never mind that the military didn't seem to have any problems...)
I carried a .357 wheelgun for about 15 years. We transitioned to the Glock M23 somewhere in the mid-80s.
The primary motivating factor back then was not demonstrations of auto expertise on TV, but rather that criminals were becoming better armed.
When I started, the typical "street" gun was an ancient "owl's head" revolver in .32 or .38 S&W. Occasionally a crudely-sawn-off shotgun.
However, the rising gang problem and the lucrative drug trade meant that folks were getting upgraded weapons, and police officers were increasingly running into criminals armed with high-capacity auto pistols and such.
So, there was quite a lot of pressure to ditch the revolvers, and a lot of discussion about same.
Thoughts about officers "spraying and praying" and so forth.
My memory may be foggy, but I seem to recall the FBI as the first agency to officially adopt an auto. The first local outfit was the Illinois State Patrol, who went to a S&W 9mm. Our local ST. Louis PD went to the Berretta 9mm, and the county guys went the S&W route as well.
I have to say, I do not understand how creating special classes of special people that the regular laws do not apply to is a good thing.
This is why I still say NO ISSUE carry licenses is better than may issue, for example
"I have to say, I do not understand how creating special classes of special people that the regular laws do not apply to is a good thing."
No one said it was, and that was not the question.
So as long as everyone is screwed over equally it is acceptable?.
No one said it was, and that was not the question.
So as long as everyone is screwed over equally it is acceptable?.
I don't think anybody said it was.
But I will say that everyone being screwed over equally is better than the special class (rich, famous, politically corrupted er I mean connected, certain occupations, whatever) being given special consideration while everybody else gets screwed over
351 WINCHESTER
Member
With all the police and other armed agencies, why is the crime thru the roof?
How many sworn law enforcement officers are there per unit of population in relation to other major metropolitan areas?
monotonous_iterancy
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On a whole, it's not. Crime levels are at their lowest levels since the 60s. You just hear more about crimes outside of your locale.
No, Jerry did not use a "special setup" (whatever that means). His gun is basically a box stock S&W. Major power ammunition. None of his guns have lighter springs installed. I have stood next to him and watched him shoot and still cannot hardly believe it.
That's not what I've read, but I don't have sources handy, so that's a dead end.
How close to Jerry's performance do you suppose those armed guards in DC are?
BHP FAN
Member
add adreneline,and a real ''situation'' and maybe closer than you'd think.
wojownik
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The few security officers (SPOs) that I personally know in DC have both former military and former LEO backgrounds. Others tend to veer towards the Paul Blart, Mall Cop stereotype, admittedly.
I can't attest to how overall "close to Jerry's performance ... suppose those armed guards in DC are". However, among the very few I am acquainted with, I'd say that they have walked the walk (and perhaps I choose my associations carefully).
I remember walking into a Federal building with a colleague (retired Marine), and after walking through the security area, he did a double take and turned around. Turns out that one of the SPOs at the desk served with him during the first Iraq war.
Of course, my defense of SPOs in DC must be limited. Such as the case of the fine fellow that fumbled my laptop as it came out of the Xray machine, and dropped it flat on a marble floor. :banghead:
I can't attest to how overall "close to Jerry's performance ... suppose those armed guards in DC are". However, among the very few I am acquainted with, I'd say that they have walked the walk (and perhaps I choose my associations carefully).
I remember walking into a Federal building with a colleague (retired Marine), and after walking through the security area, he did a double take and turned around. Turns out that one of the SPOs at the desk served with him during the first Iraq war.
Of course, my defense of SPOs in DC must be limited. Such as the case of the fine fellow that fumbled my laptop as it came out of the Xray machine, and dropped it flat on a marble floor. :banghead:
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Oh boy, lots of thread has gone by, let's see if we can play catch up...
There's a lot of not true in there. We don't have a single government contract that stipulates a revolver must be carried. They all stipulate level III or better holsters though.
There are state level restrictions on what type or caliber firearm may be carried though, so that's true. For example, Florida restricts security officers to .380 (yes, seriously), 9mm autos or .38 or .357 revolvers. Sorry .45 fans, Florida isn't for you. As mentioned by a poster above, the STL area is .38 special only. Louisianan allows 9, .40, .45, .38spl and .357mag, so you have better choice than Florida
Never seen any federal restriction limiting semi-automatics to Sig, Glock & S&W, nor one restricting caliber to .40 S&W.
Now, there may be some individual government agency with those standards, but they aren't general government contract standards.
That's really a very silly question. It's like asking how close you think you average NYPD officer is to being able to make the Glock shooting team.
Not very close at all.
My company is licensed to operate (and does) SPOs in DC. (Talk about a nightmare trying to jump through all the legal hoops to make that happen ) I'll tell you straight out, there isn't anything special about DC SPOs as compared to armed security guards in the rest of the nation. There are good ones and bad ones. Ones that are over qualified for the job and ones that would forget to breath if it wasn't automatic. DC just likes to call them special and make the company jump through hoops to create special shoulder patches that won't be used any where else in the country.
Oh and DC doesn't technically restrict SPOs to revolvers only. There are SPOs that carry .45s, as long as they use 7 round magazines in them. DC shut that down recently though, so they only people you will see with them were grandfathered in.
Now all that stuff having being said, many companies restrict what their officers may carry more than the state they work in does. Some companies, like mine, allow you to purchase your own firearm as long as it is within certain guidelines. Some companies own the firearms the guard is going to use and issue them out, thus removing any choice. You have to remember that some of the very biggest security companies aren't American owned, so you see a lot of foreign influence in their firearms policies. Combine that with the company owning the firearms and attempting to issue a firearm that is acceptable everywhere... You get company issued .38 revolvers. That's why you end up seeing most revolvers these days. There are still some guards who carry a revolver by choice, but the majority of guards are wearing autos these days.
Depending on where in the nation I am going to be working I swap out a .45, a 9 or a .357 revolver regularly.
There's a lot of not true in there. We don't have a single government contract that stipulates a revolver must be carried. They all stipulate level III or better holsters though.
There are state level restrictions on what type or caliber firearm may be carried though, so that's true. For example, Florida restricts security officers to .380 (yes, seriously), 9mm autos or .38 or .357 revolvers. Sorry .45 fans, Florida isn't for you. As mentioned by a poster above, the STL area is .38 special only. Louisianan allows 9, .40, .45, .38spl and .357mag, so you have better choice than Florida
Never seen any federal restriction limiting semi-automatics to Sig, Glock & S&W, nor one restricting caliber to .40 S&W.
Now, there may be some individual government agency with those standards, but they aren't general government contract standards.
That's really a very silly question. It's like asking how close you think you average NYPD officer is to being able to make the Glock shooting team.
Not very close at all.
My company is licensed to operate (and does) SPOs in DC. (Talk about a nightmare trying to jump through all the legal hoops to make that happen
) I'll tell you straight out, there isn't anything special about DC SPOs as compared to armed security guards in the rest of the nation. There are good ones and bad ones. Ones that are over qualified for the job and ones that would forget to breath if it wasn't automatic. DC just likes to call them special and make the company jump through hoops to create special shoulder patches that won't be used any where else in the country.Oh and DC doesn't technically restrict SPOs to revolvers only. There are SPOs that carry .45s, as long as they use 7 round magazines in them. DC shut that down recently though, so they only people you will see with them were grandfathered in.
Now all that stuff having being said, many companies restrict what their officers may carry more than the state they work in does. Some companies, like mine, allow you to purchase your own firearm as long as it is within certain guidelines. Some companies own the firearms the guard is going to use and issue them out, thus removing any choice. You have to remember that some of the very biggest security companies aren't American owned, so you see a lot of foreign influence in their firearms policies. Combine that with the company owning the firearms and attempting to issue a firearm that is acceptable everywhere... You get company issued .38 revolvers. That's why you end up seeing most revolvers these days. There are still some guards who carry a revolver by choice, but the majority of guards are wearing autos these days.
Depending on where in the nation I am going to be working I swap out a .45, a 9 or a .357 revolver regularly.
Which is precisely why I don't reference the skills of the Glock shooting team as evidence for why SPOs, or whoever, should carry Glocks.
xsquidgator
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If you want an idea of the relative effectiveness of revolvers vs semi-autos, go shoot an IDPA or IPSC match and look at the scores. An Expert wheelgunner can usually up with the scores posted by Novice semi-auto people (and usually then they're running moonclipped revolvers). In the hands of a typical competition shooter at the club level, having a semi-auto is worth about a class or two of increased score.
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