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Why so many rounds?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Kano383, Dec 28, 2016.

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  1. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Excellent point. However, I would add, don't let your dedication to make good hits and your time spent in skill development blind you to the facts that multiple COM hits can fail to stop and that even very good shooters often miss in gunfights. I'm not saying one should plan for failure, that's not wise. But it's also unwise to make a plan that requires perfect performance in order to achieve success.
    Why don't you answer the question yourself as an exercise. I'll bet that if you do so thoughtfully you will be able to think of at least three good reasons why people don't carry more than one spare tire and will also, in the process, come up with at least that many reasons why having a second spare tire in a typical passenger vehicle is very different from carrying a high capacity pistol vs. a single-stack or compact revolver.

    For what it's worth, I did carry two spares for at least one period of several months, not because I was especially worried about flats during that timeframe but because through a strange set of circumstances I ended up with a spare wheel with a tire on it. That was before cellphones and at the time I was only rarely using my trunk for anything and was also doing a lot of driving through fairly remote areas. So I threw the wheel/tire in the trunk and left it there until I had to take it out to make space for cargo.
     
  2. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    I watched a dash cam film of a patrol officer who had a encounter with two men. He emptied his high cap magazine without getting one hit.
    Got them running like a Grayhound into the woods tho.
    I carry a 6 round revolver. Is 6 enough ? I can only say I hope so, but it might not be depending on what happens.
     
  3. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    When did the two guys start running, round number one or "15"? Just curious.
     
  4. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    I would say if all cars had two spare tire wells we would all carry two spare tires. Because it would be convenient to do so. A lot of people don't carry a spare tire at all and then expect others to drop everything and come save them. I have said this before in this thread, it is easier to carry two spare magazines on the belt than one in a pocket, so I carry two. Its not an inconvenience for me. I don't even notice them. It balances out the weight of a gun on my belt which is actually a good thing. Why would I carry less? I have yet to hear anyone place a convincing argument to why I should go to a single spare magazine other than they think its too many.
     
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  5. Ghost In The Fog

    Ghost In The Fog Member

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    I'm an "Old School Guy" and I have learned to change with the times. I grew up and was taught from a very early age, and thought on my own, that the only gun needed for self defense was a 4" .357 Magnum with 125 Gr. JHP's

    Lots of life lessons and time has passed and I am a hard core believer in my Glock 19 for EDC. I would rather use 2 or whatever random number the OP thinks is acceptable and have 14 left.
    Maybe it is new math, but 16-6 = 10 R 10 or live to see another day. Beats the hell outta BangBangBangBangBangBangCLICK..........Click.......click
    Even some us old farts, no matter how cool the the "Old Guys Rule" T-Shirts we wear are, can still learn new things. Just because it's new, doesn't always make it bad. LOL
    It's all relative to our own situation.
     
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  6. Ghost In The Fog

    Ghost In The Fog Member

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    This is awesome!
     
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  7. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    NOT PERTINANT to this conversation.

    BUT one reason that I [ being me,and me alone ] carry as many rounds as I possibly can.

    I vividly recall the FBI shootout in Miami,they lost 2 SWAT agents and the rest wounded,from 2 well armed terrorists [ they were not called that at the time ].

    The words that stuck in my mind,were the actual word of the agent that actually shot and stopped the 2.

    Agent Morale said [ paraphrasing ] " carry what you feel comfortable with ,NO carry as much as you can cause if you run dry it will KILL YOU".

    I expect to not need my gun again [ I was an LEO ] in my lifetime.

    BUT as I venture forth daily,I am in condition yellow,and can and do go to orange / RED as fast as I see fit.

    AND ,I carry what I hope is FAR too much ammunition than I could ever use / need.

    :evil::neener::evil::neener::evil:.

    Fire away at will,I can take it :evil:
     
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  8. Leanwolf

    Leanwolf Member

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    As a certified geezer, I am old fashioned, therefore, my self defense firearm is from the Jurassic period, I suppose.

    [​IMG]

    Colt's Lightweight Commander .45 ACP, Bar-Sto barrel, MMC Hi-Vis fixed sights, lightweight trigger, extended Hoag slide release, two eight round magazines, a Kramer Pro-Line horsehide holster and Milt Sparks mag pouch. I figure if I can't shoot my way out of a down-and-dirty situation with 17 rounds of 230 grains Hydra Shoks, I'd just better be fast on my feet. ;)

    I bought this many years ago when I lived in Los Angeles, from a retired Captain in the U.S. Coast Guard. I still shoot IDPA and use it two or three times a year, just to keep in practice.. Works flawlessly and is my EDC. My usual IDPA pistol is a Colt's 1911 Govt. Model. Both work the same.

    L.W.
     
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  9. JohnBiltz

    JohnBiltz Member

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    I'm 60 so I guess I'm a geezer. Its not like Glocks are new. The first two guns I bought, at the same time, a Mossberg 12 gauge with two barrels and a S&W Model 66 .357. Which I would guess was so common it was a cliche. The Wonder 9s came out when I was in my late 20s. Bought my first Glock when I was 38 but had owned numerous other double stack 9s prior to that.
     
  10. Elm Creek Smith

    Elm Creek Smith Member

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    We prepare for a "worst case" scenario. The odds that protestors are going to storm my government building are slim, but all my officers wear body armor and carry at least three 15 round magazines in/for their issue Glock 22s. I, being the dinosaur, carry a 4 inch S&W Model 686-6 with 30 rounds in the gun/speedloaders, a 2 inch S&W Model 12-2 with six rounds, a 1⅞ inch S&W Model 642 with 5 rounds, and a 6 round speed strip. This doesn't address the OC spray, batons, or Tasers that we carry.

    Our usual "excitement" consists of homeless people wandering in the parking garage or coming into the public areas of the building and causing disruptions or unhappy citizens. We can usually handle those just by being there. That doesn't mean that we are going to reduce our basic loads. Off duty, we carry based on our perceived potential threats, not what will probably happen.
     
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  11. Blacksmoke

    Blacksmoke Member

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    You have a lot of people depending upon you in a worst case situation. Appears you are prepared. It seems sad to me that you have to carry three revolvers and other equipment just to maintain building security.
     
  12. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I am all over the map on this.

    I have single shot, a double barrel, 3 shot semi auto, and 5 shot pump shotguns.

    I have rifles I shoot in the the vintage and modern military matches that have 30 round magazines, as-issued.

    My dedicated self defense guns of choice are a 5 shot revolver, 10 shot semi-auto pistol, and the 5 shot pump shotgun. I qualified for my carry permit with a 7 shot .45 pistol.

    I have hunted with both a single shot bolt action and 18 shot semi-auto rifles.

    I like to have my options open. Also the question "Why so many rounds?" is often followed by suggestions of legal limits like the 1994-2004 Assault Weapon Ban or the NY or CA ten shot limit (with felony criminal penalties). That creates a natural resistence from me to the question.

    As for my 10 shot pistol, I have six magazines in part because, if I rent a lane at the indoor range, I want to spend my time target practice, not pay for magazine reload practice. Even at the outdoor range at the gun club, I may have a limited amount of time for practice and take high capacity magazines preloaded.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  13. Elm Creek Smith

    Elm Creek Smith Member

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    I choose to carry three revolvers like I choose to carry two revolvers off duty. The other equipment is to provide a "continuum of force" to meet the need.
     
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  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    2 bad guys is more than plenty. Handguns are weak and ineffective of a general rule. Sometimes attackers absorb many solid hits without stopping. Hit rates tend to run around 20%.
     
  15. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    The reality of it is that in high-stress situations when you need to use your firearm, you will likely miss a few times. The target might be moving, unlike static targets that most people practice with at the range. Multiple bad guys are also a possibility (don't just expect its just one).

    The movies always show the good guys making headshots or COM shots easily, but reality is far from that. It takes skill, practice, and years of experience to be that proficient. So It is always wise to carry a spare mag with you.
     
  16. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    I was listening to Clint Smith on YouTube today and thought of this thread. I like his take on training and I appreciate his humor.
    He says in one of his "Raw Clint" videos:
    "... a gun for personal defense, none of them are too small. Until the fight starts. Then none of them are too big! If you could draw a bazooka out of a shoulder holster you would sign up for that **** in a heart beat!"

    Granted, the bazooka is an exaggeration but I think he makes a good point.

    The video is here and it does use some foul language:
    ETA: I tried to make it a link, but it imbedded the video...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  17. DownInTheDark

    DownInTheDark Member

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    I ended up with a Glock 32 for conceal carry. The Glock 20's were a little too big for me. 14 rounds of 357 Sig is alright, but if they could fit 16 in the same sized package I wouldn't limit myself to 14.
     
  18. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I've been pretty confident with a 1911 with 7 + 1 and a spare 7 rounder. However, I watched "John Wick" last night, and now I'm convinced I need a G17/G34 with at least four spare mags.

    Being serious, Tom Givens of Rangemaster Training, has said (I'm pretty sure this is accurate) ... "The 1911 is a one or two bad guy gun in a three or four bad guy world." He's switched from a being a long time 1911 carrier to a G35 carrier for that reason.

    Of course, I may think about moving if I lived in a "three or four bad guy" neighborhood.
     
  19. tuj

    tuj Member

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    There was a home invasion here recently, there were 5 armed intruders. Figure 2 or 3 shots for each one, that's 10-15 rounds right there assuming no misses or bad placements. Those same guys ended up firing something like 20+ rounds at the cops when the cops showed up at the scene while they were fleeing. So yeah, in a gunfight, more ammo = better. Because you ARE going to miss. Reminds me of that shoot-out in Ohio where a trooper and a driver both drew on each other and at a range of I'd say 7-feet they unloaded and totally missed each other while backing up, both of them. I'd expect that from a civilian, but not from a trooper.

    Jim Cirillo said he only saw a single 1-shot-stop in his career, and that was with a .30-carbine to the head. Don't expect the bad guy to stop, even if they aren't on drugs.
     
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  20. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    Yes but... how many shots were fired by the defender before the 5 intruders fled?
     
  21. tuj

    tuj Member

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    zero by the defender -- he wasn't armed and got beat up pretty bad IIRC.

    But I will concede your point that most of the time these thugs aren't going to have the guts to stand there and keep shooting when one of their own goes down or the shots start coming back at them; they'll run once the odds are even or even slightly tilted.
     
  22. Warp

    Warp Member

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    You are delusional to think you can avoid violent criminals or a certain number of violent criminals by living in 'the right neighborhood'.

    Why don't you just move to a "zero bad guy" neighborhood?
     
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  23. drunkenpoacher

    drunkenpoacher Member

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    We could settle the argument by doing a survey of people who have survived gunfights. Only one question: Did you regret having ammo left after the fight?
    A possible follow up question: Were any lions, tigers or elephants involved?
     
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  24. Blacksmoke

    Blacksmoke Member

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    Sadly, you are right. If a guy on an Army base will go nuts and start killing people, that can happen anywhere. I suppose that if one lives in a gated community patrolled by armed security police, the chances are less than the south side of Chicago. There are degrees of risk but no place is risk free.
     
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  25. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    Nonsense. What does regret have to do with anything? The question needing the answer is "did you have enough gun/ammo to stop a threat?" The one instance I was shot at generated no thought whatsoever, regret or otherwise, as to the amount of ammo I carried. My only preoccupation was relief to be alive.

    I disagree. Your lifestyle and location have very much to do with your potential threat level. Choices people make have greater impact on their lives than dumb luck. No place is 100% safe but some places and/or actions are considerably safer than others. A simple fact of life.
     
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