Why so much disdain for the .25 acp?
- Thread starter Guvnor
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nwilliams
Member
I'd never choose to carry a .25 for personal protection if I had other options available to me.
That said I'd rather be armed with a .25 than to not be armed at all if I felt my life was in danger. It may not stop an attacker but it might slow them down and buy me time if nothing else.
That said I'd rather be armed with a .25 than to not be armed at all if I felt my life was in danger. It may not stop an attacker but it might slow them down and buy me time if nothing else.
I will agree, the LCR is probably a god choice for your wife. With the reasonable cost of 22LR ammunition, she will shoot it more for practice and maybe desire to try something larger.
As for the 25ACP, you kind of answered the question with this last paragraph. The 25 ACP is a back up, easy concealment firearm to diffuse close encounters which it seems is what your great grandfather and grand father were using their 25 ACP for (BTW, I have the personal handgun my grandfather carried in France during the Great War and it is a cherished family procession).
With today's micro 380 ACPs, the benefits of the 25 ACP's small size are not as much of an advantage as they used to be. But, the micro 380 ACPs have their disadvantages as well.
Disdain for the 25 ACP might come from the notion that some folks feel the need for 44 performance from a palm size handgun.
otasan56
Member
The .25ACP is a very poor choice for SD. Even a .32 is a much better choice.
pockets
Member
Q - "What's dis stain?"
A - "Do you mean dat stain on da floor? Why, dat's left over from da last guy who laughed at my .25acp"
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481
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That's pretty good, pockets. Funniest thing I've read all day.
I used to own a Raven .25, and it was by far one of the easiest-to-shoot guns I've ever owned. I could run the police qualification course with it and pass, as well. In contrast, the LCP in .380 is one of the hardest-to-shoot pistols I've ever owned. While the recoil of a .380 isn't all that much in a larger, steel-framed pistol, it's quite a handful in the "micro" pistols. I think she's made a great choice in starting out with the .22 revolver. It's a great first step.
FWIW, I've seen exactly one guy shot with a .25 ACP. It happened right in front of me. These two drunk neighbors of mine got into a quarrel once, and the shorter one shot the taller one in the chest. The bullet entered just over his left nipple, nicked a rib, and proceeded straight on through his body, finally coming to rest between the back ribs just under his shoulder blade. While it didn't kill him, it did make for the vaunted one-shot-stop (tm). He went down to his knees, bleeding, no fight left in him.
I personally wouldn't want the .25 to be my ONLY means of self-defense, but yeah. It's way better than a hurled rock.
FWIW, I've seen exactly one guy shot with a .25 ACP. It happened right in front of me. These two drunk neighbors of mine got into a quarrel once, and the shorter one shot the taller one in the chest. The bullet entered just over his left nipple, nicked a rib, and proceeded straight on through his body, finally coming to rest between the back ribs just under his shoulder blade. While it didn't kill him, it did make for the vaunted one-shot-stop (tm). He went down to his knees, bleeding, no fight left in him.
I personally wouldn't want the .25 to be my ONLY means of self-defense, but yeah. It's way better than a hurled rock.
mdauben
Member
These guns are not any more user friendly for people with small hands than their full sized brethren. The circumference of the grip on the Glock 26 for example is the same as the full sized Glock 17, the only difference is that it's shorter. As some others have said, a single-stack gun is much more likely to fit small hands than a stubby double stack.
mljdeckard
Member
Buy, shoot, collect, carry, whatever you want. It's a free country. But if I'm talking to someone who I actually care whether or not they live or die, I will tell them, .380 with premium ammunition (such as Double-Tap) is the minimum.
Browning designed the little .25 ACP cartridge (also called the 6.35mm Browning) for use in Vest Pocket Pistols, and in that context they’re isn’t anything much better. Over time the FN Browning model 1906 and Colt Vest Pocket model of 1908 became the most copied pistols of all time, and were produced in quantities far greater then any larger caliber.
Why? Because while they are not for the most part favored by members of gun forums, they are greatly so by the general public. These buyers are not gunfighters, nor do they pretend to be. They presume that to be armed with something is far better then to be armed with nothing, and they have no desire to lug around heavier armament. They are supported by the thought that most any thug they may encounter doesn't want to get shot with anything, and at least a few that didn't, came to wish (but not for long) they'd done things differently.
Those that don't feel secure with these little guys are welcome to carry anything bigger, but I have noticed when a top-quality one in good condition shows up at a retailer or gun show they don't sit for very long. Somebody must like them.
Why? Because while they are not for the most part favored by members of gun forums, they are greatly so by the general public. These buyers are not gunfighters, nor do they pretend to be. They presume that to be armed with something is far better then to be armed with nothing, and they have no desire to lug around heavier armament. They are supported by the thought that most any thug they may encounter doesn't want to get shot with anything, and at least a few that didn't, came to wish (but not for long) they'd done things differently.
Those that don't feel secure with these little guys are welcome to carry anything bigger, but I have noticed when a top-quality one in good condition shows up at a retailer or gun show they don't sit for very long. Somebody must like them.
LMAO thanks for sharing that. Love those stories pisses the fanboys off.Wow! Is G-lock the only pistol that is capable of firing 9mm+P+ ammo? :banghead:
For every story of a .25 failing to stop a threat there is a counter-story where it does. An Attorney friend of mine recently and successfully argued a case of two drug dealers shooting it out. Bad Guy #1 pulled a G-lock 9mm on BG #2, fired and missed, whereupon BG #2 grabbed his Lorcin .25 and shot BG #1 in the heart. BG #1 dropped his G-lock, stumbled back clutching his chest, and exanguinated. Lorcin 1, G-lock 0.
After reading this thread, and carrying a .45 and alternately a .380 daily, I really, really, really want a .25 ACP with a tip-up barrell to carry in my pocket.
It's on my list now. I might even share it with my wife! (But she prefers her .32 revolver.)
Not kidding.
It's on my list now. I might even share it with my wife! (But she prefers her .32 revolver.)
Not kidding.
SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE
Member
I am of the opinion that in most self defense situations , the bad guy should not know you are armed until you begin to shoot him ! With a .25 he might not even see it until it is too late ! Kevin
McDonalds sells a lot of cheeseburgers - but there are a lot of much better cheeseburgers on the market. Still, a McDonalds cheeseburger is better than no cheeseburger at all.
Quantity sold is not a measure of quality or capability. Sure, a .25acp might kill or repel your attacker, as might a number of other tools and implements, and size and weight must factor into the decision. If a .25 is the biggest, most powerful gun you can and will carry, so be it. The "disdain for the .25 acp" stems from the fact that there are many more capable cartridges available in platforms that, while larger, are still small enough.
Back in my LEO days, my deep BUG was a High Standard .22 WMR derringer, a true desperation gun if there ever was one. Two rounds, long trigger pull, no safeties. Stick it in their ear or throat and pull the trigger. Contact that would push a semi out of battery was the best way to aim that sucker. Give the BG the bullet AND the expanding gas cloud - and they'd get it all since the breech was locked and there was no cylinder gap. If it wasn't touching the target, a miss was likely. Still preferred it to a .25 acp...
.25 acp has the advantage of being available in very small pistols. Period. Ever see a .25 acp in a 4" barrel, hi-cap duty-sized pistol? Me neither.
.25 acp has the disadvantage of only being available in very small pistols, and those run the quality scale from very good to garbage.
Go to your LGS or sporting goods store or even WalMart and make a list of all the ammo choices by caliber, then rank the list from Most Desirable To Save My Life to Least, and see where the .25 acp falls in YOUR ranking.
Quantity sold is not a measure of quality or capability. Sure, a .25acp might kill or repel your attacker, as might a number of other tools and implements, and size and weight must factor into the decision. If a .25 is the biggest, most powerful gun you can and will carry, so be it. The "disdain for the .25 acp" stems from the fact that there are many more capable cartridges available in platforms that, while larger, are still small enough.
Back in my LEO days, my deep BUG was a High Standard .22 WMR derringer, a true desperation gun if there ever was one. Two rounds, long trigger pull, no safeties. Stick it in their ear or throat and pull the trigger. Contact that would push a semi out of battery was the best way to aim that sucker. Give the BG the bullet AND the expanding gas cloud - and they'd get it all since the breech was locked and there was no cylinder gap. If it wasn't touching the target, a miss was likely. Still preferred it to a .25 acp...
.25 acp has the advantage of being available in very small pistols. Period. Ever see a .25 acp in a 4" barrel, hi-cap duty-sized pistol? Me neither.
.25 acp has the disadvantage of only being available in very small pistols, and those run the quality scale from very good to garbage.
Go to your LGS or sporting goods store or even WalMart and make a list of all the ammo choices by caliber, then rank the list from Most Desirable To Save My Life to Least, and see where the .25 acp falls in YOUR ranking.
I'd rather have a .25 than a sharp rock, but would take a handgun in any other popular caliber over a gun in .25 auto. I see no use for one when there are so many better options available. I'd rather use something that has a more solid reputation for eliminating threats in a defensive pistol
The popularity of a given weapon as a tool for murder does little to convince me its a good choice for self defense. Shooting someone execution style in the back of the head requires less performance than shooting a bad guy hiding behind light cover, for example. Just because a weapon can effectively be used as a tool of murder doesn't make it a smart defensive choice. Too, the statistics for guns used in murders will be skewed towards the lower-end of the gun market, as cheap handguns are commonplace on our city streets. If more people are murdered with a Jennings .380 than a Glock 9mm, does that mean the .380 is a better choice? Or does it mean that there are simply a lot more of the Jennings $80 guns out there than there are $400 Glocks? The Raven is a popular crime tool because its abundant and cheap, not because of the awesomeness of the .25 acp round
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Isaac-1
Member
The problem is some of the .25 stories are true, I knew a guy that was the victim of a drive by .25ACP shooting about 15 years ago, it was one cold January night and he was standing in the parking lot of a bar when he was shot from a passing car, probably 50-75 feet away. Being cold out he was wearing multiple layers of cloths, the bullet did not break his skin, but ruined a nice leather jacket.
mcdonl
Member
I have always wanted one but ammo price was a turn off....
pockets
Member
Sorry....I neglected to mention that I love .25acp pistols....I own a lot of them.
A little 'assault Raven' with a 15-round magazine is a hoot to play with.
My favorite .25acp pistol would be the Beretta 950b.....the older version. Mine is from 1957. I'm still looking for an old National brand 15-round mag for that one.
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A little 'assault Raven' with a 15-round magazine is a hoot to play with.
My favorite .25acp pistol would be the Beretta 950b.....the older version. Mine is from 1957. I'm still looking for an old National brand 15-round mag for that one.
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MICHAEL T
Member
Well I have 5 of the little 25 autos. A Bauer bought new 3 Beretta's 2 950's one with safety 1 non safety and a Model 20 . Also have a Titan but its shoots and never jammed. I like the little 25. . Only drew one once. Was the 950. In a parking garage many years ago. He had a folding knife I had the Beretta. GUN was all he saw and he was faster than the Road Runner leaving . My girls and I have 2 of the Beretta 21 in 22 LR . They fun to play with but can't compair to the 950 for accuracy and trouble free. Their also thicker and have lousy trigger. .
People carry those little NAA 22LR and 22 mag pistols . Yet show their dislike for the 25. They need to check NAA tests of ammo and their guns on their web sight Might find out their not reall any better than a 25 . Plus the 25 holds more rounds and shoots faster Could even be reloaded with a spae mag quicker.
I carry my 380 KelTec more today but I like and still carry 25 now and then.
but its shoots and never jammed. I like the little 25. . Only drew one once. Was the 950. In a parking garage many years ago. He had a folding knife I had the Beretta. GUN was all he saw and he was faster than the Road Runner leaving . My girls and I have 2 of the Beretta 21 in 22 LR . They fun to play with but can't compair to the 950 for accuracy and trouble free. Their also thicker and have lousy trigger. .People carry those little NAA 22LR and 22 mag pistols . Yet show their dislike for the 25. They need to check NAA tests of ammo and their guns on their web sight Might find out their not reall any better than a 25 . Plus the 25 holds more rounds and shoots faster Could even be reloaded with a spae mag quicker.
I carry my 380 KelTec more today but I like and still carry 25 now and then.
smalls
Member
Well, yeah. I don't think anyone carrying a .22 should be running around telling people the .25 is an anemic round.
Madcap_Magician
Member
What about a .22 magnum? Or a .380 ACP? Both can be had in platforms that are easier to shoot than any .25 ACP belly gun and are more powerful with the same or less recoil.
A .22 magnum 3" S&W revolver would be a good gun. So would a Beretta 84 in .380 ACP.
A .22 magnum 3" S&W revolver would be a good gun. So would a Beretta 84 in .380 ACP.
Robbins290
Member
i think 25 is too weak and slow to do much damage, 380 is the min i would go.
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