Why so much disdain for the .25 acp?

Status
Not open for further replies.
JR47 said:
Done both, and have more than a working knowledge in physics.

Stopping power is a myth. Evan Marshall, who's books defined the term, states plainly that "stopping power is a myth". Page 3, Handgun Stopping Power, 1992.

There are too many people alive today, who were shot with things like a 30mm round, or an RPG, to believe that ANY rifle or pistol round is a guaranteed "stopper".

There are some rounds that can stop an attack, but only if placed precisely, and in a large enough number. If a .22 Long Rifle round can stop a person, then anything larger, in the same place, will do the same thing.

Quote:
Hopefully no one thinks that a little bullet is more likely to down an opponent then a big one. That's a non-issue, and those that bring it up are missing the point.
Actually, it's the opposite. Apparently there are those to whom a bullet smaller than a given, to them, size is seemingly unable to to down an opponent . That is a non-issue, and those that bring it up are missing the point.

Current .25 ACP bullets are the product of 1900's technology, with a very few exceptions. The manufacturers are happy to sell a number of rounds per year. They haven't determined a need to invest money in improving the caliber. The same technology that has given us the improved .380 ACP ammunition could easily be applied to the round. Powders are today available that would increase performance markedly, while maintaining pressures at a safe limit. Look at the Superformance rounds, or Cor-Bon's pistol ammo.

Then again, the current ammunition does seem to kill quite handily. Despite the apparent physics issue. Then again, until recently, physics proved that a Bumblebee couldn't fly. Nobody bothered to tell the bees, apparently.

The size of a projectile matters little, as long as it hits the appropriate target, and penetrates it. Look at the .22 Long Rifle. As most CCW incidents take place at less than seven feet, in near-darkness, distance is also a meaningless factor. Unless one was asleep, most actions play out up close, with 50' engagements virtually the sole province of the LEO.

It's amusing to listen to the pontifications of those who pronounce their knowledge as the ultimate arbiter. They are uniformly wrong.

Will a .25 ACP kill? Of course it will. Nobody is dumb enough to deny that. Is it the optimal self-defense weapon? Nope, and I haven't seen a single person claiming that. However, the gun that you have certainly beats the "better gun" that's at home.

Not too long ago, a Police Officer felt adequately armed with a six-shot .38 Special revolver, loaded with round-nosed 158-200 gr. bullets. Before than, they felt safe carrying .32 S&W revolvers. Many Armies issued the .32 ACP cartridge for battlefield use, as well.

Today, we poo-poo these cartridges as worse than nothing. Oddly, there are literally millions of dead people whom this wasn't true for. Perhaps we should understand that humans aren't particularly hard to kill, or stop, sometimes. Other times, they are literally bullet sponges, of everything man-portable. There doesn't seem to be a linear relationship to this, either. It's like a switch thrown at the first impact. Before the switch, a .22 long rifle will have them on the ground. After that switch is turned, though, they are the Amazing Hulk.

Carry what you feel comfortable with. It will work for the majority of the time, despite the warnings of the pundits. Fo the Hulks, nothing that you have will work, so why worry?

Accuracy trumps technology, and has for thousands of years. That is provided by the shooter

Excellent post.
 
I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just wanted to have a discussion about this. My wife and I were recently shopping around looking at small handguns at local gun shops. She is tiny with small hands, and has little to no firearms experience other than the times I have brought her shooting with me. We were essentially looking for a small, light, low recoil pistol that she could get confident with and keep by the bedside until she is comfortable moving up in caliber.

Well at practically every shop we visited, when I asked to see a .25 acp from the case like a beretta, taurus, baby browning, etc. they were basically like "oh you don't want that" and proceeded to tell me what a horrible choice it would be and how useless the round is. I thought this was a bit condescending.

Also on many gun discussion sites you will find very little love for the .25 acp. "If somebody shot me with one, id get mad" type comments. People usually say the .22lr is way better. I'm starting to think the little round gets ragged on unfairly. I think its unfair because when you look at the numbers, from identical guns with very short barrels, the .22lr and .25 acp are putting out almost the same numbers as far as energy (around 60-70 ft lbs.) I noticed alot of people mistakenly cite the .22lr energy from a rifle length barrel (usually around 130 ft. lbs.) when comparing to the .25 acp.

There are lots of anecdotal stories of .25 acp bouncing off someone's forehead, or failing to penetrate a leather jacket, etc. But I have a feeling that this reputation comes from the crappy "Saturday night special" .25's that flooded the market after the '68 gun control act. Perhaps these guns had poorly manufactured bores with loose tolerances which resulted in lower muzzle velocities? Anyway, brassfetcher tested a quality .25 acp gun (beretta 21a) and it achieved advertised velocity and penetrated 15 inches of gelatin with ball ammo. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1715.htm

Now please note that I am NOT trying to say that the .25 acp is an effective stopper, nor am I trying to pretend that its a good defense round.. But it aint no airsoft gun either like some would lead you to beleive. Lets remember why John Browning designed this round, to be a more reliable alternative to the .22lr in pocket sized pistols. I think it serves this purpose fairly well.

My wife ended up choosing the Ruger LCR .22lr revolver, but I felt compelled to write this anyways. I appreciate the history of this little round and one of my dream guns I would love to have is an original Baby Browning. My great grandfather was a police officer who's off-duty carry gun was a Colt 1908 vest pocket .25 acp. He passed it on to my grandfather (another cop) who also carried it off duty until the 1970's. We still have it in the family.

Sounds like you and you wife need self defense handgun training from a good instructor!

A 380 or 9 with training can be shot by anyone well. There's tons of soft shooting 9's and 380 with several choices for good defense ammo.
And anyone can rack the slide on an auto with training. Shoot even one handed.


In God and Glock we Trust
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top