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Why so much disdain for youths on this forum?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hornadylnl, Jul 24, 2007.

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  1. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    There was a blantant disdain and distrust for the 19 year old carrying the ak in the thread about him. Many posters automatically assumed because of his age that he was up to no good.

    Then there was this gem in another thread.
    "1. The staff seemed very young. They were knowledgable and ran everything safely but they I do not think that any of them could be much older than 21 if that." http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=287598

    Is it right to assume that because someone is young that they can't possibly be proficient and knowledgeable in the use of firearms? It is like saying this - Some young people are irresponsible. Some young people own guns. All young gunowners are irresponsible.

    I'm 30 years old and spent 3 years in active duty Army infantry. I trained on the M16, Saw, M203, M60 and various other weapons systems. I spent another 4 years in the National Guard infantry. I've fired on many ranges and know how to competently run one. I've been married to an M16 for a 6 month deployment. To assume that I'm incompetent because of my age really irks me.

    You have many older people who do nothing but complain about how the youth have no respect for their elders. If they did something beside denigrate them, maybe they would earn the respect of the youth. You have to give respect to get it.

    Numbers of days lived on this earth doesn't equate to wisdom. Age helps but isn't the be all end all.
     
  2. igpoobah

    igpoobah Member

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    Some 19 y.o. 'youts':) will have the maturity to handle firearms, I would say most would not.

    The problem with being a responsible 'yout' is that people treat you like you are irresponsible until you prove otherwise. :rolleyes:

    I went through this as well. Am I more mature and responsible now than I was then? Of course.
     
  3. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Disdain for yutes? We don't got no sorry disdain for yutes!

    :D
     
  4. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Wait 10 MORE years and you'll know.:evil:

    Seriously, I didn't find that post to be full of disdain. It was descriptive.

    If I go to the range and there's nobody there over 21, I expect certain things. They'll ask for my current Safety Card, which no member actually carries, even if they know me by name and my card is a quarter mile away, locked in a car because I'm shooting my shotgun on the other side of the range before sighting in a rifle. They'll ask for my membership card, which nobody carries, even though my name and membership status is on the computer terminal right in front of them and I hand them a credit card and ID with my name on them. (BTW I just did a search and I am the only person in the USA with my name.)

    If I go to the range and there's nobody there under 65, I expect certain things. They'll sneer at me in a curmudgeonly way, but it means I remind them of their sons. They'll complain about rapid firing from a bolt action. They'll be full of advice, some of which will reall raise and some of which will dramatically lower my trap score, and it's my problem to discern which.

    I feel no "disdain" for either young or old. But if I go to a range, I don't mind knowing what to expect when I get there. It helps me to enjoy myself more.
     
  5. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    igpoohbah -"Some 19 y.o. 'youts' will have the maturity to handle firearms, I would say most would not.

    The problem with being a responsible 'yout' is that people treat you like you are irresponsible until you prove otherwise."

    A 40 year old guy sits down at the bench next to you at the range with an ak. For all you know, he has never even fired a gun and he just bought it at the gunshop on the way to the range. You wouldn't make the same assumption about him that you would the 19 year old. Don't you have children? Did they live in a vacuum in your home in regards to guns and safe handling practices or did you teach them how to shoot and how to handle them safely?

    I grew up with guns and did a lot of shooting. I got a Remington 1187 for Christmas when I was 13. Your assumption of my knowledge because of my age would make you look ignorant.

    I guess I'm an optimist. I don't assume someone is an idiot until they prove themselves to be one.
     
  6. Seancass

    Seancass Member

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    most of the old people are mad because, statistically, they're going to die before the young people.
     
  7. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    It's not hard to tell who is safe and who isn't.

    And age has nothing to do with it.

    As my Dad used to say (maybe still does): "Did you have to get that old to be so stupid?":D
     
  8. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    I think it's in part, at least, an Internet/Computer/Discussion board phenomena. When you see a post from a new member that's got lots of "7337 5p3@k" in it and nonsense you can tell is poorly filtered Counterstrike content, "DEAGLE IS THE B00Mb wh3r3 k1n 1 g37 w0n on 3B@yz...", you're naturally suspicious you're dealing with a kid in posession of a head full of mush.

    He might be an honor student at MIT, but from a post like that you'll never know it.

    When you're in person, you can judge people's maturity level by their actions. However, before you have a chance to judge their actions, you have to go on what evidence you're given. The kid at the gun range might be a CMH Marine back from his first rotation in Iraq, but if he's dressed in baggy hip-hop, or "goth" wear, you won't know it.

    People say don't judge a book by it's cover, but I think people can be forgiven when they walk into a bookstore that specializes in Dostoevsky, and Tolstoy, but slips dustcovers on everything that says "PORN!"

    IMO, despite prejudice being looked down upon, people are also accountable for the "cover" they show the world too.

    As politically aware shooters, we're also very alert that one bad incident can get our favorite, club, range or store shut down, and easily become fodder for the anti's, or the mainstream media to be used against all shooters and RKBA supporters.

    Personaly, when it comes to "young shooters" I think President Regan said it best: "Trust, but verify"...
     
  9. dmrodco

    dmrodco Member

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    OK SLICK listen here. I am a ranger officer at a local range. I treat EVERYONE like they know how to handle a firearm until they prove they cannot. YES I do watch EVERYONE on the range and younger folks even more so because years on this earth do matter you have less (19) you know less simple math dont like it go somewhere else. good luck in whatever forum you end up in next. :uhoh:
     
  10. igpoobah

    igpoobah Member

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    People 'profile' other people based on what they see and relate what they see with past experiences, that is human nature. It's not going to change.

    Yes, you are an optimist. I assume people are blithering idiots until they prove otherwise. Especially with firearms. ;)

    My safety around people with guns is more important than my remaining objective as to what I see and how I 'profile'.

    And I'm only a year older than you, so I'm certainly not profiling a 30 year old. I know as well as anyone that the difference between 20 and 30 is astronomical. I'm sure at 40, I'll be saying the same thing about the difference between 30 and 40.. :p
     
  11. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    Someone just got done watching "My Cousin Vinny"

    :D
     
  12. junyo

    junyo Member

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    I think you get misinformation from young and old in equal proportions. The young tend to think anything they found or figured out is the latest revelation from on high, the old tend to think that The Way It's Always Been Done (at the moment in time when they were young) is the final word, incapable of improvement.
     
  13. dmrodco

    dmrodco Member

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    PS dont let the low post count fool ya sunny I only pipe up when I have something useful to say this thread just gets on my nerves the whining is like nails on a chalk board
     
  14. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Don't trust anyone under 50 :p
     
  15. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    AJ Dual -"Personaly, when it comes to "young shooters" I think President Regan said it best: "Trust, but verify"..."

    Why would you not feel the same way about older people? Again, a 40 year old could have bought his first gun on the way to the range before he sat down next to you.

    Trust me, I don't think living another 10 years will change my outlook on younger people. I've always hated the mentality that I can cut in the lunch line because I'm a senior because the seniors did it to me. If you didn't like being mistreated by older people, why would you do it when it becomes your turn? I hated the old school people in the Army who complained that they couldn't beat us like their superiors did them. Having to stand a soldier at attention and beating them is piss poor leadership at it's worst. If it takes beating someone, get rid of them. Punish the whole group because of the actions of one idiot because that is how they did you? That ranks right up there with beating a soldier.
     
  16. trueblue1776

    trueblue1776 Member

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    Amen. Hornady, we get it, you are mad the guy with the AK got in trouble.
     
  17. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Wow, that's one of the most belligerent, downright false statements I've ever read on THR (including L&P).
     
  18. still442

    still442 Member

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    And on what would you base this conclusion? Does this also mean that MOST people under 20 are unfit to serve in the military, since they lack the maturity to handle firearms?

    I think the NRA, with its many youth-oriented programs, would have a strong reaction to your ridiculous statement. And how did you come up with age 20 as the cut off? Why not 23? Or 17? When exactly are you old enough to handle a firearm?

    HA! At 19 I was 2 years into an accelerated Ivy-league education and running a 60-man homeless shelter in a violent neighborhood in Boston with 3 other "youts"...what the hell were you up to? Clearly, not working on your expository writing skills!
     
  19. hornadylnl

    hornadylnl Member

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    dmrodco -"because years on this earth do matter you have less (19) you know less simple math dont like it go somewhere else."

    And I deal with people who are much older than I who have half the maturity that I do. I bought my house at age 22, have a credit score of 789 out of 830. I work with 40 and 50 year olds who would feel privelaged to own a trailer to live in because they are irresponsible. If you feel comfortable assuming that just because that person is older than me, he is more responsible, go ahead and make the incorrect assumption.

    When I first started my job, I was made fun of by those older than me. I started telling them the places I've been and the things that I've seen and their attitude started to change a little. How could this 22 year old have more life experience than me?
     
  20. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    hornadylnl-

    It sounds to me like you resent anyone older than you, from one of your posts, and that you look down on a lot of people, from the most recent. There's a hell of a lot more "disdain" in what you have been writing than in the original post you linked. Maybe you've earned the right to feel that way, but it doesn't make you any more open-minded than the people you criticize. Who cares, anyway? It's your right as an American to look down on "trailer trash" if you want to.

    Could it be that you read your own prejudices, resentments and assumptions into a simple statement of fact in the original link? It sure seems that way to me.

    Personally, at the range I try to "read" people and figure out if they can be trusted or if I need to keep one eye on where their muzzle's pointed. And quite often, young shooters have a lot more respect for safety rules and firearms than some of the old guys. But I don't feel any disdain for any of them. I like them all, until I get a damn good reason not to. I just watch my ass, because I don't want to get shot by anyone, young or old, jaded or giddy.:)

    Either way, there will be old bigots and young bigots, puffed-up jerks who haven't earned the right, and humble people who don't have a need to brag. That's kinda how the world is, I think.
     
  21. Deavis

    Deavis Member

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    You are right. Age does not equal wisdom anymore than time spent on a job makes you an expert. There are plenty of 65 year old men who are as immature as 16 year olds and plenty of 30 year veteran builders who couldn't make a shed pass a general inspection. They are, however, the loudest and most outspoken about their so called abilities along with their prejudice if they are allowed the chance.

    What you are running into is two-fold. First, the classic case of projection. Many people on here believe they were irresponsible at a young age and so they project their own immature past onto you. They usually say, "Well when I was..." or "I would never have trusted myself..." or, my favorite, "You'll see, just wait xx years, you are too young to understand..."

    Ignore that crap, those are the type of self-righteous people you'll never want to be friends or shoot with anyhow. They are of the same breed as many anti-gunners/control freaks, they just happen to line up with gun lovers on a few issues but probe them about alcohol, smoking, or any number of personal freedoms and the little closet authoritarian inside of them comes right out. Other tells, "Why would you need...", "Who would want...", etc, you either get my point or don't.

    Second is a case of exercising caution. They don't berate you about your age or judge people because of their age, just their actions. They take steps to protect themself from the possibility of a poor decision by you based on their experience, but are willing to accept your decisions as your own choice. A person giving you a wide berth while you handle a weapon is being cautious, who knows he may have a baby on the way and doesn't know you. Maybe they are giving you good saftey tips, you have to listen to know. However, someone who gives you a wide berth and makes a disparaging comment, is one of the undesirables I already mentioned. Don't mistake the two.

    The latter are the people you should care about offending or getting to know, forget the rest. Make the best decisions based on your experience and logic, if it is wrong and you are smart, you'll learn from it. I look back at every decision I have ever made and raw age has never factored into it. I made the best choice at that time in my life based on the options I had, the experience I had, and nobody can ask for anything else.

    Certainly, as you get older you get more options and more experience to pull from but that doesn't mean you will make wise choices. Otherwise there wouldn't be 35 year old LEOs with a family having a ND in his house or a 28 year old father of 2 driving 80mph on the freeway in an underpowered car with shoddy brakes. People will be people, sort them, keep what you want, discard the rest.
     
  22. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Why not? Nature does.:D

    [​IMG]
     
  23. tmajors

    tmajors Member

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    7h3 d15741n f0r y0u7h5 f0r m3 15 fr0m 5331n6 5ub 20 y34r 0|d5, 4nd 0v3r 50m3 0v3r 20'5 7h47 7h1nk 17 15 c00| 70 7yp3 |1k3 7h15. 17 m3|75 my 3y35 wh3n 1 533 50m30n3 p057 |1k3 7h15 h3r3.

    Sorry had to do it...and yes I hired a translator.
     
  24. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Deavis raises some interesting points.

    When I was 18, I knew everything.

    Now that I'm 52, somewhere along the line, I've realized how much I have to learn.

    While I do attempt to avoid castigating anyone until I see (or hear) them in action, I'll admit I'm guilty of some prejudices concerning various things and/or people.

    Mea culpa. BTDT
     
  25. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    It does, however, seem ironic when someone goes on about how he looks down on people, yet hates it when people look down on people, which is where this has been headed...

    Sometimes it's best to leave it alone and accept that we're ALL kinda not perfect.

    Why get angry about anger?

    At the risk of sounding like a damn hippie...:p
     
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