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Why so much hostility towards "tactical"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DRMMR02, Oct 3, 2006.

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  1. DRMMR02

    DRMMR02 member

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    Why so much hostolity towards "tactical" from THR? The Urban setting is a way of life now. Many people who CCW or have weapons are not living out on the farm. They don't need to worry about coyotes or bears. People living in the city need to worry about criminals. Why shouldn't the same things that work well for police or soldiers in urban combat be available or useful to a citizen? Aren't we always saying "you can't always rely on having the police a moment away"? Things like lasers, mounted lights, night vision, night sights, all have a purpose. A LEO posted in the "fad" thread that he liked having a mounted light on his pistol because it allowed him to open doors or use his radio while keeping a suspect illuminated and secured. Why can this not also apply to non-LEOs? Is there something wrong with wanting a free hand when dealing with a bad guy? What if one wants to be on the phone to 911 but doesnt want to put down the light or his weapon? Is there some rule that says "A simple pistol and flashlight are all a civilian can use to protect his family"? The fact is, police and soldiers have these tools and they work. With the right training and know-how, there is no reason for an average Joe not to have them if he wants.


    Tools are just tools. If one knows how to use the correcty and seriously, why make fun of it? I can understand the scorn if one thinks that simply "having" a light rail or a scoped AR will make them better. I play hockey, and I see the same thing with guys who think buying $500 skates will make them handle better. But if some really does take the time to hone their skills, who says $500 skates or a night-vision scope can't help with whatever they are trying to do?

    That comment someone made in the "fad" thread about Buford T. Justice and his .38 is very apt. 20 years ago, every thought "plastic" guns would never match good ol fashion blued steel. Now of course we know that they are just as reliable, lighter, and in some cases more durable. That's called progress. It seems like a lot of people just want things to stay in their era. "If a bolt action with a nice wood stock was good enough for me, it's good enough for you".
     
  2. the 22 junkie

    the 22 junkie Member

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    Mostly old geezers chiding them for..."Why back in my day, I had to fend off 20 (gestures with hands to indicate size) mutant zombie bikers with just my Marlin single shot and irons and none o' your fancy laser dot beams and the like....". Which is funny, becuase their old eyes and bodies could probably use those fancy red dot sights and recoil absorbing stocks the most. :p :)
     
  3. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    I'm not anti tactical, but I have noticed that for most people, tactical has become tacticool. They buy the gear because it is neat or cool, not necesarily because of application.

    Also, remember that many gun owners as a group are often a guild based on tradition. Tactical is not a part of that tradition. Tradition is blued steel and walnut, and every now and then some stainless or plastic- say a grip cap or something.

    And then there is the antis. Tactical is very similar to what you would expect the military and or LE to have than the aformentioned traditional gun owner. That makes it even easier to stigmatize people against, because nobody, in their heart of hearts, wants somebody to be killed or to have to kill.

    Personally, I see it as personal option. I really don't think tactical weapons are aesthetic. But, I realize that they are necesary, and serve a purpose. It's good to like everything, at least that's my opinion. Not sure what the wallet thinks though...
     
  4. redneckrepairs

    redneckrepairs Member

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    IMHO its because thro marketing " tactical " has become a buzzword for profeciancy . A lot of us here are to the point that we realise that a light on a gun will not have anything to do with our survivability rate , and we worry about the folks who see the light on the gun as a substitute for training and practice on low light level shooting , that is an example and not ment to bismerch " porchlights " on pisols or rifles , the same could be said for foreward vertical handgrips on an ar , or a multitude of accessorys its just that nowdays " tactical " has become a catchphrase for any gimmic which makes a shooter feel that the " gimmic " will make him/her a better shooter than pure work will ( range time ) .... others may differ , but that is my thoughts weak tho they are LOL
     
  5. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    buy stuff because you want it or have a use for it. don't let others make your decisions for you based on their own personal prejudices.
     
  6. jerkyman45

    jerkyman45 Member

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    Tactical isn't what I have a problem with, tacticool is just goofy. Put a Surefire on an AR-15, thats fine. But when you add two Surefires, a laser foregrip, a $800 scope, a bipod, a beta-C mag, a bayonet, and a mock silencer then dress in digi-BDUs from head to toe, deck out in full body armor and head out to McReedy's range and sportsmans club I get a little wierded out. Tactical is great, just don't go crazy.
     
  7. junyo

    junyo Member

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    Because gun owners are a ridiculously conservative group. They poopoo anything that hasn't been around at least 50 years and/or 2 major conflicts.

    Now, there is a reason behind this. Anything serious, with split second life/death consequences tends to favor tried and true, it-might-not-be-cool-but-I-know-it-works solutions. They tend not to like, and to never forget, failures. For every guy who now thinks the AR platform is the bee's knees is some old codger that spits whenever it's mentioned, and moans about the unreliability of it based on the initial production one they replaced his M14 with in 'Nam. And lastly, a lot of what seems new and exciting to people who haven't seen as much, is reheated hash to the old guys (and gals). A lot of "new" ideas are really taking their second or third turn around the block. Maybe they've worked out the kinks, maybe they have'nt.

    I try to balance the good bits of advice ("you shouldn't need geegaws to make it work") and ignore the BS ("if it's not a 1911, in .45 ACP, you might as well be throwing spitballs...").
     
  8. GEM

    GEM Member

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    Hey - I was looking for cheap Under Armour shirts to wear to matches. I found them at the Under Armour outlet store in their TACTICAL LINE - only $14.00.

    Thus, I was tactical as the match this weekend. Unfortunately, the targets weren't impressed and didn't suck all my rounds to the A zone.

    So when I go to the gun show and see the Goodyear blimp in human form wearing a tac vest to look at Hi-points - I congratulate that person on style. :D
     
  9. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    I hate it because of the market. Do a search for "tactical" at the wilson combat website and you'll get most of the catalogue.
     
  10. carterbeauford

    carterbeauford member

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    I am not particularly hostile towards tactical stuff, not nearly as bad as others. I admit I am guilty of owning a "black SKS" ...and we'll leave it at that.

    Of course the line between "needed/useful" and "crap" is so often blurred. SWAT teams are not helping the situation any, though they might be engaging in the root word of tactics a little more often than you or I.

    I stand by my opinion that if a product makes shooting your gun easier or safer to shoot, then by all means, use it. What I mean by safer would be using a flashlight mounted on a home defense shotgun. No one ever did anything wrong by identifying their target. Yet some people hate the idea of anything brighter than a 2D Rayovac and frown upon bright and expensive flashlights, and especially frown upon bright and expensive flashlights mounted on guns.

    I do recall reading that "no one needs a $200 flashlight." Meet me in the woods at midnight on the first night with no moon and we'll discuss this. Come alone. If you hear a jangling noise, it's just the wild dogs. Or the mountain lion that just ate one of the wild dogs and stole his collar.

    Technology is not retroactive, and the influx of tactical gear is a result of technology. If you hate change and innovation, things are only going to get worse for you.
     
  11. RobW

    RobW Member

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    I already have a good supply of black "Tactical" toothpicks, "Tactical" toothbrush, "Tactical" potatoes (they don't smell too good, but they are black), and "Tactical" soap.

    Now I'm going to my "Tactical" bed. Black, for sure.
     
  12. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    To me it seems like everything is tactical. Fat tony looks dumb when he puts on his tactical break away velco necktie. The guy that dons his tactical boots, tactical vest, tactical folder, tactical knife to buy some bread at walmart seems overdressed. Alot of it seems like guys who want to play cop or soldier and buy the toys to act the part. Thats fine as long as you're having fun but try to limit your tactitude a little in public or you look goofy. And some stuff that is labeled as tactical is just plain goofy anyway. :evil:
     
  13. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    When I was a kid, (high school,) I would order the U.S. Cavalry Store catalog and drool over all the cool stuff that was 'official issue'. When I was in the Army, I got my bubble busted, because I got 'issued' almost none of that stuff, and when you do get it, it isn't as good as they make it look in the pictures.

    I bought a Buckmaster knife (they don't make them anymore) when I was 18, anticipating going into the army. I did take it with me, and I was quite overdressed with it. After extensive time in the military and as a survival instructor in the field, and some time working with 'court-referred youth' out in the desert, I do feel like this knife is appropriate. But it certainly wasn't when I got it.

    After a lot of 'been there, done that' kind of experience, I came to realize that most soldiers loaded down with all the coolest gear on the market would be no match for my grandfather with his 1917 Enfield. Looking SWAT doesn't make you good. I have, over time, come to realize that it really is better to start with the basics (for gear AND tactics) and when you have mastered them, THEN escalate one step at a time. Otherwise, you're probably wasting money. Just because Blackhawk makes it, and you can buy it, doesn't mean it will actually help you. If you don't know what you are doing with a vanilla Remington 870, a short barrel, flashlight, laser, mag extension, and folding stock won't help you.
     
  14. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    We have just enough money to buy cool tactical stuff, but not enough time to spend becoming expert riflemen. It is a way to compensate.
     
  15. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    COL John Boyd said it well: "People, ideas, hardware- IN THAT ORDER!" I recently revised my sig line to include another variation on the theme, from Jeff Cooper.

    Note that hardware comes in last in every case.

    Or to quote our own sm: "Cannot buy skill and targets."

    Colonel Sanders made a fortune selling chicken in a cardboard box. If I could figure out a way to sell tactical in a blister pack, I could get rich too. Tactical is what you DO, not what you OWN.

    lpl/nc
     
  16. madmike

    madmike Member

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    pinkrifles0511.jpg


    Because pink is the new black. Sheesh. Where have you been?

    Black is just inherently uncool.
     
  17. madmike

    madmike Member

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    [​IMG]


    And what's wrong with bayonets, lights, bipods, betamags, QD swivels, padded slings, scopes, stowaway grips and lasers?






    WHAT?
     
  18. absolute0

    absolute0 Member

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    BLACKHAWK!

    Need I say more?
     
  19. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Uh....

    because there are posers, and guys that can really fill the bill

    We had a guy that worked at our gun shop. This boy had every "tacticool" thing produced. The black pants, the tricked out AR, the coolest super mega beam flashlight, the super 870 pump shotgun.....

    problem was, he was the 250 pound pimple faced geek that could do the hundred in two minutes flat

    the only guys impressed by "tacticool" are other nerds

    Now, I've got a G20 with an M6 light and an AR. I don't have them to be cool, I have them because I can use them.
     
  20. MAURICE

    MAURICE Member

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    The definition of tactical has gone from using the right tool for the job and dressing for the situation to running around in black and OD green, carrying the latest benchmade automatic knife, surefire light, and titanium spork.

    However, I do love me some tacticool guns, knives, lights, etc.
    Recently though I have gone from carrying a couple of knives to one. A custom slipjoint folder. I dont carry my surefire on my person, it stays in the car most of the time (unless I am working). I traded in my black Fisher pen for a silver cross pen. My brunton helios is now a stainless zippo. My tactical titanium watch is now a stainless citizen.

    Tactical, for me, has become more about blending in with the rest of the crowd than standing out because of my 5.11 pants and any kind of cover garment that could remotely be called tactical or scream "I have a gun".

    Got nothing against anyone for how they dress. If you want to dress tactically, go ahead. Just be advised that you do stick out in a crowd. Like Andre the giant at a little people convention.
     
  21. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    Tactical is one thing...and when properly applied...appropriate. But, I've seen people at diff't ranges who have broken out the well pressed, dry cleaned designer BDU's and pull up in their chromed out H2 :scrutiny: open up their leather range bags and start shooting like their favorite movie liberal :rolleyes:
    It's not hostility, it's the irreverence they show towards those that hold tactical revere that is more annoying than anything else. :banghead:
     
  22. JMag

    JMag Member

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    "Tactical is what you DO, not what you OWN."

    That about sums it up for me.
     
  23. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    Tactical... Gecko45 and his ninja-walk-on-the-wall-boots probably spelled out how some people see 'tactical'. Also, how some people seem to claim that you can't hit anything without a red-dot scope selling for 300.

    As for myself, I can see the point of a laser and/or a light on a handgun or rifle... I can't see why you need a scope on a handgun, though, and I get sick of the bull barrels on every revolver on the blasted market.

    Lots of people have their own prejudices on what looks right on a gun, and what should and shouldn't be done. Not really meaningful, in a lot of cases - doesn't matter if I hate bull barrels, no more than if I think mayonaise is better on a burger than ketchup. Make your own decisions.
     
  24. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Because "tactical" is pretty much synonymous with "wannabe", at least if you're the kind of guy who thinks "tactical" means dressing up like the model in the Blackhawk! ads.

    Bad news, dude: the odds of you saving the world and impressing chicks by foiling a terrorist plot with your NVG and pants-with-lots-of-pockets are pretty slim. And you look like a dork when you go to the Piggly-Wiggly.

    Thanks for letting me share!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2006
  25. DRMMR02

    DRMMR02 member

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    Here's another question. How does someone dressing up like an operator and going to the range differ from guys who will only hunt with a muzzle-loader and period-specific fur and leather clothes? How does wearing 5.11 pants and a tac-vest differ from guys who do Civil War reenacting? It all just seems like guys having fun however they want to me.
     
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