Why the lack of love for the .40?

[jimsmith]

I have both a .40 and a .45... The .40 is very popular in my house.

 

[420Stainless]

I love the .45 more, but the .40 is good with me too. I don't care much for the 9mm. The .40S&W gives pretty much the same velocities as the 9mm with heavier bullets. Nothing wrong with the nine, but I'm at home with the other two and never really got into it.

 

[schmeky]

I was in the "would never spent my money on a .40" camp like a lot of folks. I had the .22, 9mm, and .45. What was the point? Then I bought a brand new CZ-40B from CDNN for $289.00, simply because I like CZ's and 40B was inexpensive.

Previously I had been picking up range brass and throwing away the .40 cases, but one day I started to sort and keep them. After I got the new CZ, I bought a set of dies off Ebay and started loading the .40. I now shoot the .40 over the 9mm; the .40 is a reloaders delight.

I love the .40 and would give up the 9mm if I had to chose between it and the .40. My 2 primary calibers now are .40 and .45. I'm not sure why, but I can consistently shoot the .40 more accurately than my 9mm's now. This SP-01, .40 is a joy to shoot.

 

[HexHead]

I've had all three major calibers. Nothing wrong truly with any of them.
I prefer the .45. The main thing between it and the .40 is the recoil. Not that the .40 is bad, but the snap that it generates is sharper to me than the push the .45 generates. I just prefer the push. To me it is easier to manage.

Just my 2 cents.

That about sums it up, just saved me a bunch of typing. I just didn't like .40. I'm much more accurate with either 9mm or .45.

 

[dbarile]

Don't have a 40 yet but would like to try one when I get a chance. A local indoor range has one and I've been trying to find the time to rent it for about the past month.

I have 9mm and 45 but wouldn't mind adding another caliber to the fold.

 

[AKElroy]

I like it's ability to throw a 135 gr - 155 gr slug over 1100 fps. This is an ideal CCW round. It's diameter is at a minimum, but still seems to get the job done with good hollow points.

Try 1200 fps 165 gr Gold Dots from Doubletap; Few if any .45 loads match this combo for energy.

 

[msiley]

I love the .40!

I don't hate the others but when I was doing research on
buying my first semi-auto all signs pointed to the .40
as being a great cartridge.

 

[GJgo]

The first time I shot a 40 it was a friend's pistol, and my experience at the time was limited to my 45. I shot the 40 better, but looking back on it, my 45 was not all that great..

Later on I got a Glock 40. I thought it was a great gun, albeit a bit "snappy" vs. the "push" I was used to.

Then one day I purchased a drop-in Glock 357 Sig barrel and gave it a go. I decided I preferred it over the 40 by quite a bit, and have not gone back to the 40 since.

 

[LightningMan]

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet as I have not read all the posts, but I think it boils down to "Longevity". Both the 9mm & the .45acp have been around nearly 100 years and the .40S&W is just a young pup compared to them. You also must under stand that there are many guns in .45 & 9mm that are still out there being used sence the early years of production which continue to be produced to this day. The .40 has a lot of catching up to do, so it's no wonder there is more .40 S&W ammo in a merchants display case than 9mm or .45 acp. Just my 2 cents, LM.

 

[sohcgt2]

freakshow10mm responded to Zak Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak Smith
10mm was conceived as an ideal pistol cartridge by Jeff Cooper, but it was later downsized for the reasons above - and that full-house 10mm was a "hand full" to shoot.

False.

I take it you are hinting towards the FBI 10mm issue. Let me set the record straight again.

1) The FBI never tested full power 10mm.

2) The FBI never issued full power 10mm.

3) The FBI stipulation for the new cartridge selection was that the recoil of the ammo/weapon combination could not recoil more than a standard GI 1911 using standard 230gr GI ball. The 10mm test ammo was handloaded by an FBI agent to meet those requirements for the test.

4) There is an account on the S&W forums by the FBI agent who was there. Read it.

5) The cancellation of the contract with S&W had nothing to do with the 10mm cartridge (in fact it's still used by the FBI today) nor the weight of the weapon. It had everything to do with politics. The agency was training their agents to prep the trigger, which went against the design of the system, and failures occurred. The FBI whined to S&W, S&W told them to get bent and the FBI canceled the contract. It was politics.

I'm curious as to how A Marine Col. opinion of a cartridge and its feasability for defensive use turns into FBI conspiracy theory. I'm also curious why it finds its way into a discussion of the favor of .40SW compared to 9mm and .45acp.

 

[Zak Smith]

I'm curious as to how A Marine Col. opinion of a cartridge and its feasability for defensive use turns into FBI conspiracy theory. I'm also curious why it finds its way into a discussion of the favor of .40SW compared to 9mm and .45acp.

Thank you, sohcgt2. It's odd that a post which didn't mention the FBI at all could be construed as being all about the FBI's history with the cartridge...

 

[mgregg85]

No need for the .40S&W while the 10mm is still around, provided you can handle more recoil than a 10 year old kid.

I'm still waiting for a 10mm XD.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Probably because its not a 9mm or a 45 and is uncommonly found in 1911s.

 

[bondmid003]

.40 is my favorite caliber thats why 2 of mine and the one on the way are all .40

 

[newmenu]

It's a poorly conceived round that does nothing that 9mm JHPs don't already do, and .45ACP JHPs still offer more diameter, whether expansion occurs or not.

The .40S&W is still an on paper solution looking for a real world problem, just like the .357SIG and .45GAP.

correct +1

Fact is, 9mm with +p rounds can hurt a BG just as bad as .40

round ---------in ----Grains -FPS --energy
9mm Para +P --0.356 -115 --1299 ---465
9mm Para +P+ 0.356 -115 ---1310 ---439
40 S&W ------0.4 --155 ----1324 ---524
.45 ACP ------0.452 -200 ---975 ----421
.45 ACP +P ---0.452 -185 ---1250 ---573

if you really want to kill a BG

use .45 +p in one of these

 

[TexasRedneck]

Okay....I'm confused. You SAY that the 9mm will hurt a BG as bad as a .40 - yet in the information YOU provide, you show the 40 with over 20% more energy with a projectile having 30% more weight.

How is that equal? Is that new math?

 

[newmenu]

Well TexasGenius, Im sorry, TexasREDNECK, the bullet is traveling at almost the exact same velocity and is damn near the same energy. What that means is the 9mm +p or +p+ will hurt a BG just as bad as a .40 cal but is more likely to stay in the BG and not kill the kid standing behind him.

Sounds to me like the 9mm is the better round than .40 in almost every way accept in a war application but in a war application I would rather go with .45 for obvious reasons. .40 was overhyped, over sold and is NEVER going to be as prevelent as 9mm or .45

 

[Just One Shot]

The .40 IS popular around here! There is only one place that I know of that has any ammo and it's the Fioochi brand. I own .22, .380, 9mm and .40 Cal. pistols.

 

[MaterDei]

I'll probably never own another 40. My first and only 40 was a S&W Sigma. Horrible gun. Not the cartridge's fault but after that experience I never want to touch a Sigma or a .40 again.

 

[TexasRedneck]

NewMenu - is there a reason for the provocative language? I simply looked at the information you provided, and questioned the basis of your position. With the additional mass and frontal area, the premise of overpenetration of the 40 vs. the 9 mm hasn't been shown over the results I've seen to date.
Since you are the one making such an allegation, can you point me to the studies showing such?
As I've said several times already, sometimes folks simply have a preference - for me, I prefer the 45, then the 40 based on personal experience and long-term studies of ballistics results - but I can also understand those that like the 9. I might point out, however, that most of the Law Enforcement community has gone away from the 9mm as the caliber of choice based on their own experiences....and yeah - I was active when those experiences were being learned.

 

[TexasRedneck]

MaterDei - I can understand that! My first experience with the 40 cartridge was with a Glock 22. Bear in mind that it was my first Plast-o-matic, having always shot either 1911's or wheelguns, and I frankly found that while I was deadly accurate with the gun, there was something about it I just didn't like. That colored my own opinions about the cartridge for a number of years, which is one of the reasons I don't fault others for their personal choices - because my own experience showed me that a strong dislike for a given gun can color the opinion of the cartridge as well. And before ya'll get out yet another rope, , let me remind you that I was VERY accurate with the gun - it was simply a personal issue I have with the gun. Know way too many folks that've carried 'em for years without a problem for me to slam 'em completely, but I'm also aware of their design issues, and as a reloader their lack of support on the cartridge base concerns me.

 

[riccrouch]

The .40 was the first auto I ever shot in any significant quantity. I have an H&K Compact 40 that I really like to shoot, and so I decided to get the Kahr CW40 as a CCW choice, simply so I didn't have to keep ammo of another caliber on hand.

All in all, I like the performance. Since I don't have much of a basis of comparison, though, not sure how much weight my opinion carries!

 

[AKElroy]

I'll probably never own another 40. My first and only 40 was a S&W Sigma. Horrible gun. Not the cartridge's fault but after that experience I never want to touch a Sigma or a .40 again.

Sigma was crap--I had the same experience. I am so anti-sigma, I actually cannot get my brain around an M&P even though I know logically they are completely different. Don't blame the cartridge, though.

 

[Big Daddy Grim]

The only 9's I have are CCWs and one target Glock 17L I like .40 but have always carried 1911s and all except 2 10mm's have been .45. I respect the .40 but was brought up with .45 and now that my agency went Sig I really like my new P220. So I think it's just personal preference. I still show love I may only have 2 .40's but I love them.

 

[Skunk Pilot]

There is a .40S&W +P

Fact is, 9mm with +p rounds can hurt a BG just as bad as .40

round ---------in ----Grains -FPS --energy
9mm Para +P --0.356 -115 --1299 ---465
9mm Para +P+ 0.356 -115 ---1310 ---439
40 S&W ------0.4 --155 ----1324 ---524
.45 ACP ------0.452 -200 ---975 ----421
.45 ACP +P ---0.452 -185 ---1250 ---573

I'll add so called +P .40 S&W rounds from Buffalo Bore

155gr. Speer Uni Core @ 1300 fps (582 ft. lbs.)
180gr. Speer Uni Core @ 1100 fps (484 ft. lbs.)
180gr. FMJ @ 1100 fps (484 ft. lbs.)

I just had to do a Google search after I saw you didn't include a .40 S&W with the +P in your table (I assumed there had to be some). Only checked these guys, don't know if there are others. I have never shot them and don't plan on it, but for defense why not get it for your CCW. I have a G23C and the recoil on the .40 S&W is too much for me. I have huge neck problems so I will be getting a conversion barrel to 9mm or sell it and get a new gun (SA XDm?).

But I still think that the .40 S&W is a great all around caliber and gun combo. You get most of the stopping power of a .45 with more rounds.
----
Almost forgot, if I had more money I would get the XDm in .40 S&W and then later on get a 9mm conversion barrel for it if I wanted to have just one handgun. Of course if I had the cash I would keep my G23C and then get the XDm in 9mm. Then also a .22lr pistol so I can shoot 10 times more.