Thin Black Line
Member
So 50 bmg is the worst of the red-line "overbore" cartridges?
Why was 243 Win never considered as a military cartridge?
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gvnwst
Member
Well, on that chart, yes.
Thin Black Line
Member
Someone care to mention which weapon systems use the 50 BMG?
gvnwst
Member
M82 anti material sniper, M2 heavy machine gun, i thing that about covers it.
Lloyd Smale
Member
well ive owned and shot a few bolt guns in my days and i do realize that shooting slowly out of a bolt is going to produce alot less throat errosion then shooting rapid fire out of a semi auto. I have wore out rifle barrels and dont think ive personaly had any centerfire rifle barrel that shot a high pressure round (by high pressure i meant 48000plus) that lasted 10000 rounds without some deterioration of accuracy. At least none shot even at the pace of a varmit rifle. Im sure it could be done if you shot maybe a round ever 15 minutes to ensure the barrel stayed cool and you stayed away from ball powders which is about impossible unless you handload as just about every manufacture of ammo uses ball powders. If i had to make an educated guess id about bet that used like an ar is used barrel life would be about half what it would be with a 223 and close to half of what youd get shooting 308 military ammo is loaded to lower pressures then comercial ammo.
Thin Black Line
Member
Imagine that.
gvnwst
Member
Well, those are th only ones the armed forces use. For all of them.....lots.
I'm not getting your point. The sniper systems are not high volume shooters. The M2 has quick change barrels which are either swapped quite often or quickly become smoothbores. Semi/full auto infantry rifles don't have that feature.
I like the .243 a lot as a sporting round but military use would be very limited.
otomik
Member
.243Win doesn't work because of the excessive case capacity leading to overbore. but a .243/6mm cartridge with a smaller case would be fantastic.
thats the big difference between .243 Winchester and 6mm SAW.
.243 Winchester is based on .308 and that's why it's easy to put in FN-FAL and AR-10. that's not to say a 6mm cartridge for the military should actually be like .243winchester except in ballistics.
thats the big difference between .243 Winchester and 6mm SAW.
.243 Winchester is based on .308 and that's why it's easy to put in FN-FAL and AR-10. that's not to say a 6mm cartridge for the military should actually be like .243winchester except in ballistics.
6mm Lee Navy, 6mm SAW experimental. then there's some close ones like 5.8mm Chinese.
as mentioned before the 243 FAL is offered by DSA. it was also sold by springfield armory in 243. no doubt bbl life would be better in the later due to chromed bore.
that said, the FAL is WAY heavy for that chambering. i'd rather have in in an AK.
gunnie
that said, the FAL is WAY heavy for that chambering. i'd rather have in in an AK.
gunnie
Lloyd Smale
Member
otomic your design would probalby make a great battle round. Problem is that it would have to be excepted by all of nato. I guess i still dont see a need to fill the gap between the 556 and the 762. Both are fine rounds that serve there purpose well.
gvnwst
Member
@otomic
Do you have velocity figures for that cartridge?
Do you have velocity figures for that cartridge?
otomik
Member
According to Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World:gvnwst said:
6mm SAW is a 105 grain FMJ Boat Tail moving at 2520fps.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Uo...&oi=book_result&resnum=12&ct=result#PPA344,M1
not my design, the US Army at Frankford Arsenal's design from the 1970sLloyd Smale said:
not really a gap cartridge. It could replace both. we now how well 6mm can reach out from bench rest shooters.Lloyd Smale said:
BTW: Frank Barnes Cartridges of the World is a really good book to have.
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Rifleman 173
Member
Actually military firearms are selected, more or less, by politicians in Washington, D.C., who take graft and kickbacks to get contracts for businesses that make guns and ammo in their home districts. Take a look at the M-16 and which politicians pushed it from Stoner and Armalite to Colt and General Dynamics in Taxachusetts. Let' see... Kennedy was the president's named coupled with a guy named Kennedy who was the U.S. Attorney General coupled with a Senator named... Oh... The senator was also named Kennedy. Colt and General Dynamics were located in the state represented by... Oh, a Kennedy.
Also take a look at the crap Senator Ted "Fat Boy" Kennedy pulled when the military wanted the then new M-1 Abrahms tank many years ago. He tied up the appropriations for that tank UNTIL he got the original engine replaced and various parts for it made in his home state of Taxachusetts. The most worthless, corrupt piece of human garbage to ever exist is a corrupt, drunken senator from any state in our country who influences military procurement in a devious way like Ted "The Lifeguard" Kennedy.
Also take a look at the crap Senator Ted "Fat Boy" Kennedy pulled when the military wanted the then new M-1 Abrahms tank many years ago. He tied up the appropriations for that tank UNTIL he got the original engine replaced and various parts for it made in his home state of Taxachusetts. The most worthless, corrupt piece of human garbage to ever exist is a corrupt, drunken senator from any state in our country who influences military procurement in a devious way like Ted "The Lifeguard" Kennedy.
gvnwst
Member
Well, the WSM is AR-10 too, it is WSSM that is '-15
Sorry, had to do that
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