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Why was the .270 invented?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by chains1240, Apr 8, 2010.

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  1. chains1240

    chains1240 Member

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    Disclaimer: This is not a loaded question and I am not stirring the pot.

    Looking over the trajectory, energy, and velocity numbers for the 30-06 and the .270 I do not see a huge difference between them. Also on Chuck Hawke's recoil table the .270 has only 1 pound less recoil with a 130 grain round than a 30-06 with a 150 grain round. Was there a specific reason that the .270 was invented? Any advantages? Thakn you.
     
  2. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Folks have always tinkered with generic cases by changing the caliber (going larger and smaller), why it stuck is the good question. FWIW, I have often wondered the same thing about any .270cal (6.8mm) bullet, owned one and it just didn't do anything for me, so it was promptly sold. [​IMG] I do like other cartridges that were derived from the '06, such as the .280Rem. and the .35Whelen, but the .270, amongst others, just isn't for me.

    :)
     
  3. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Jack O'Connor was the greatest proponent of the 270 Winchester, and it is highly likely that without him the round would have faded into obscurity.

    It is an excellent non magnum round, in my opinion at its best with a 130 grain bullet at 3000 fps. This combination shoots flat, non offensive recoil, and has killed most everything on the North American continent.

    But is that really all that much better than a 130 grain 30 caliber bullet at 3200 fps?. Hard to know.

    But as to why it was developed?. Don’t know. Commercial companies have tried to fill so many cartridge niches with new cartridges that have so little to offer over existing rounds that it is often baffling why they were ever introduced.

    I have read justifications for new cartridges that were presented as “equals the 180 grain bullet in the 30-06 at 300 yards”. Or, “equals the kinetic energy of a 357 in a 32 Caliber round”, or provides “300 Win Mag performance in a short action”.

    Sometimes the little differences create a commercial success, most of the time it leads to obsolescence.
     
  4. Murphys Law

    Murphys Law Member

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    What does Hawkes chart say for the 180 grain 30-06? It could be that when the 270 came of age, the 30-06 was usually loaded with the heavier bullets and the lighter loaded .270 was considered to be lighter recoiling and flatter shooting. Much like the argument of 7mm-08 vs. the .308. Stop stirring the pot. :)
     
  5. WNTFW

    WNTFW Member

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    Too much gap between .260 and .280? .270 is Winchester so there in probably lies part of it.
     
  6. stork

    stork Member

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    My belief is it was a vast conspiracy to enable Jack O'Connor to give constant digs to Elmer Keith.
    FWIW
     
  7. Dr T

    Dr T Member

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    Like most cartridges developed by factories, it was developed to sell more guns and ammo (Case in point: the short magnum cartridges).

    I just wonder why the 270 Win was developed well before the 280 Rem. With only 0.007 difference in bullet diameter, it would seem that the 7 mm bullet would have been a more natural choice for Winchester to make.

    It seems to me that 0.277 was an odd choice, even in 1925.
     
  8. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Nobody wanted that damned Natzi ammo, maybe?:D

    Elmer Keith was, along with damn near everyone else in and around the Army who knew about rifle ballistics, a strong proponent of the .276 Pedersen, which was shockingly similar to 7mm-08. As a cowboy shooting for meat, and as a guide, he'd just seen too many elk go running off after what should have been a good hit from the ammo available at the time, so he advocated heavier, larger rounds for big game hunting.

    I'm not sure what the friction between O'Connor and Keith was all about, though they did edit rival magazines.
     
  9. joed

    joed Member

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    When it came about it was capable of killing anything in North America with a 130 or 150 gr bullet. It still is one of the most popular cartridges in the US, own one and you'll know why it's popular.

    It's popularity has dropped in recent years I suspect due to the gun writers hawking the newer WSM and other cartridges.

    Myself I never owned one, but do have a .25-06 Rem which is very close to a .270 Win. I bought the 06 because I couldn't buy a VS in .270, no regrets though.
     
  10. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Except the .270 predates both of them
     
  11. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    The real reason was that it was 1923. WW I was long over, there was plenty of .30-06 brass around, and rifles designed for it, and smokeless powder had been around long enough for people to start thinking about high-velocity, lighter-weight bullets for flat shooting. So, Winchester necked down the .30-06 to make it shoot faster and flatter, with lighter bullets. The .270 was a pioneering round, in that it started the whole trend of tweaking a platform cartridge in all sorts of ways, to optimize for trajectory, terminal performance, etc. Many of today's rounds are the stepchildren of the .270, if you think of it like that.
     
  12. 06

    06 Member

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    My sons are half cocked caliber nuts but I have stuck to my tried and true old '06s for the last 30+ yrs. I can shoot just as well as their wildcat rds taken on the whole spectrum of ranges. Some shoot flatter, some shoot faster, but mine cost one half to one third of theirs and are available at every corner store. I have a set of 270 dies and will pick up a shooter at some time. Do not know why--just because--I reckon--lol.
     
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I recall reading that Winchester management thought something like the 7x64 Brenneke would sell well in the US. But they fudged the caliber from .284" to .277" (.270 bore) because they did not want confusion with the 7mm Mauser. Perhaps they also had an eye on the .256 Newton, which was a hot performer not widely available.

    And maybe somebody knew about the 1907 Chinese Mauser in 6.8x58mm and that was where they got the caliber not just a random "hey, this number looks good."
     
  14. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    The 30-06 loads of today are vastly different from 1923 when the 270 came out. In 1903 when the original work was started on what became known as the 30-06 smokeless powder was still new and somewhat unproven. Most hunters used heavier 180-220 grain bullets in the 30-06 and viewed it as more of a large game round than a long range round.

    By the time the 270 was developed metals had improved, and smokeless powder was less of a mystery. The 270 was traditionally loaded to higher pressures which helped the lighter 130 grain bullets shoot flatter than the older, lower pressure 30-06 shooting heavier bullets. Back in the day, they were viewed as vastly different cartridges for different uses.

    With modern powders and bullets there is very little that one can do that the other cannot. I give the '06 a slight advantage if you feel the need for truly heavy bullets of 200+ grains, but in reality if you need heavier bullets than that you probably need a bigger gun.
     
  15. chains1240

    chains1240 Member

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    Thank you everyone for all of the great information. The only thing I could find was that it was developed as a fast long range medium game round.
     
  16. 52grain

    52grain Member

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    What I want to see is a 90 grain .224 Sierra Matchking in an '06 case. That would be fun. :evil: But something tells me that having to replace the barrel every 1000 rounds wouldn't be very fun. :uhoh: Not to mention the twist rate required to stabilize it.
     
  17. Runningman

    Runningman Member

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    There is only one reason a new cartridge comes out. Money (profit), look at it from Winchester's perspective they sold rifles and ammo when the 270 was introduced in 1925. The idea of the 270 Winchester was a good one IMO. Keep in mind back in 1925 most rifles used steel butt plates. Shooting heavy bullets out of an 06 was not very pleasant for many.
     
  18. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Easy, use a disintegrating sabot round (like the SLAP or Rem. Accelerator rounds), should be good for 3500+fps. It also has the side benefit of not burning up barrels too bad due to the plastic sabot touching the bore, as well as needing less twist for stabilization due to the higher velocity (but I don't know how much less). The deficiencies are degraded accuracy and reduced efficiency.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  19. 52grain

    52grain Member

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    Unfortunately the people on this site initiated me into the cult of accuracy. I was going for a high BC. 3500 fps with a BC of about 0.5 would be nice, but I don't want one bad enough to rebarrel a rifle, neck the cases down and make the wildcat rounds myself.
     
  20. 52grain

    52grain Member

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    Just found some of the Remington accelerator rounds. That's an interesting concept. 3400fps out of a .30-30?
     
  21. lopezni

    lopezni member

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    why was the .223 wssm made?
     
  22. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Therein lies one of the great problems with it.

    Not with the projectile you chose, but those light, little boogers move quick-like. I want to play with some in the .300WM just to see what kind of carnage results. :evil:

    Whatcha talkin' bout, the Whizzums are the best evah...Winny-Herstal told me so. :rolleyes: Gosh I hate those little screamers...a horrible infliction brought on by Winchester. :barf:
     
  23. saturno_v

    saturno_v Member

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    One story I heard is that the 270 Winchester was born to remedy the failure of the early 280 Ross (unpredictable bullet behavior).

    Just a little bit more sedate and with more sophisticated bullet design at the time of introduction (the early Silvertip) the 270 ended up being what the 280 Ross should have be.
     
  24. DIM

    DIM Member

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    270 WIN was the first attempt to create magnum cartridge and it was successful, it is still considered as a step up to magnums. Myself I own one, used it few times for deer as far as performance I would put it next to .308 however 270 is faster and flatter, but at the distances I hunt it makes no difference.

    Why was it invented, its another story, why any cartridge is invented... If I'll answer, but I will probably open up can of worms. But here it goes, all cartridges were invented to eradicate proficiently, 270 win was a good choice for long range, 6.8 mm is a very good ballistic projectile capable of devastating terminal performance, including remote wounding effects known as hydrostatic shock. 6.8 mm SPC is the minuter 270
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  25. chains1240

    chains1240 Member

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    Thank again. I have looked up many many many 30-06 vs .270 vs .308. Spirited debates with the calibers close to people's hearts.
     
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