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Why we can't be trusted with bayonets...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by 4v50 Gary, Jul 9, 2003.

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  1. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, we've heard theories of genetic memory and in reading Ernest Waitt's History of the Nineteenth Regiment Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry, 1861-1865, we can see why we, as Americans, cannot be trusted with bayonets:

    "[O]n Monday morning, August 25 [1862], the Third Brigade embarked on the transport 'Atlantic' and were taken to Aquia Creek, stopping for a few hours at Fortress Monroe, where the men had an opportunity to inspect the big guns. The trip on the transport was a lively one. There were 100 officers in the cabin and 2000 men whereever they could find a place to stand. The three days' rations which the men were supposed to have, gave out, and the hard tack and port was stored at the bottom of the brigade wagon. The men were clamorous for food and resorted to all sorts of expedients to get it."

    Well, that sets the scene for what follows and what follows is exactly why our black guns don't have bayonet lugs today. ;)

    "One soldier, looking through the skylight of the cook's gallery, saw a pan of biscuit resting temptingly beneath. He procured a musket, fixed the bayonet and, reaching down, punched it through the pan and drew it up, biscuits and all, and had a 'square meal.' Others watched the waiter when he started for the officers' quarters with their dinner and took it away from him. This made the Captain of the boat very angry..."

    So, it stands to reason that if our great great grandfathers couldn't be trusted, neither should we. :D

    above cited from page 119-120
     
  2. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Nice, thanks.

    And to think I was just telling a friend yesterday how our bayonets didn't really make our M16s and M4s more dangerous!
     
  3. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    Ah, the dreaded bayonet.

    *Gasp*

    This is a weapon of war with no civilian purpose, favored by criminals and murderers nationwide! Our children are being skewered in the streets by the hundreds! Oh the humanity!
     
  4. standingbear

    standingbear Member

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    bayonets are just another scary feature to the sheeple,nothing else.i dont even believe they are used by modern armies except as parade and drill purposes.they actually make the gun front heavy and more cumbersome in my opinion.just looks.
     
  5. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    I happen to be in the Third Brigade of the Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry, and I can tell you we're all bayonet crazy!
     
  6. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    You wicked, thoughtless bayonet nuts!

    Seriously, I don't think an American has killed anyone with a fixed bayonet since Vietnam. Bayonets today are used much more as cutting tools than weapons.
     
  7. Ed Straker

    Ed Straker Member

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    Fix bayonets!

    Why, are they broken?

    :)

    With a motivated YUT...
     
  8. Keith

    Keith Member

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    The Bayonet Ban is "for the children"
     
  9. Pebcac

    Pebcac Member

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    Bayonets are, in the eyes of the average person, a military fixture. The idea of bayonet lugs making a rifle an "assault weapon" is a reinforcement of the idea that firearms in the hands of civilians are to be used for hunting and sporting only. This line of thinking allows for a ban on all "military" arms (or calibers as in some countries), since "hey, we're not taking away your deer rifle."

    Death from a thousand cuts, and this is one.
     
  10. recal

    recal Member

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    "You'll put your eye out with that thing!"


    Ungun people freak at the sight of military apparatus. You should have seen my Mom's face when I extended the bayonet on my Yugo SKS. Almost as funny as when I told her about the grenade launcher.:what:
     
  11. Dorian

    Dorian Member

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    Sont you mean: "Our biscuts are being skewered on the shelves by the dozens!"
     
  12. RKCheung

    RKCheung Member

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    Sorry, I have to disagree with y'all.

    We used bayonets in Iraq to pierce the fuel cans of black-market gas dealers. :evil:
     
  13. T.Stahl

    T.Stahl Member

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    Here in Germany, I could have the largest imaginable kitchen knife lying in a drawer, but would have to lock up a bayonet in a steel locker, just like my guns. :(
     
  14. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    Bayonts are a hazard to military people while on parade. They're almost as bad as the parades themselves. Your military drill is different but up here one 'dresses' the ranks by having them smartly drive their right arm to the next guy's shoulder. There have been instances of hands being driven onto the bayonet of the guy next door(Sterling SMGs). Never actually saw it though. Had enough trouble keeping the troopies from passing out.
    One guy landed square on his chin on the concrete parade floor. Cracked some rear molars, split his chin for a bunch of stitches, bit his lip, the whole nine yards. He's ok though. He was still living last I saw him.
     
  15. ed dixon

    ed dixon Member

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    If we don't stand up for helpless biscuits, who will? (Oops, think I just saw Sarandon and Robinson rolling themselves in flour. Spoke too soon.)
     
  16. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Bayonets actually ARE for sporting purposes! (originally)

    The story I read had it that the people around Bayonne (France, not NJ:D )liked to go out shooting wild hogs, critters notoriously grumpy and hard to kill. This being the 17th century, all they had were muzzle-loaders. Supposedly someone shot a hog and didn't kill him; when the very angry hog charged him he had an instantaneous inspiration to jam the handle of his knife into the muzzle of his piece and thereby improvise a spear. (Create distance, as the tactical gurus would say.) This being such an obviously good idea, the military folks picked it up. After all, they'd rather hire 100 guys each of whom had both a musket and a sharp pointy thing than 100 guys with muskets and 100 guys with pikes. Now the guys with the guns could resist cavalry charges without having to depend on the pikemen. This was the genesis of the plug bayonet, later some genius invented the socket bayonet. (Anyone here know who?)

    So, yes, the bayonet DOES have a sporting purpose, even if (I would suggest) one is using a modern weapon. Who among us has never had a misfire or other malfunction?

    Anecdote: Back around the late 60s or early 70s my Mom and younger brother were driving the family station wagon (a huge old boat) on Alligator Alley at night. A wild boar ran in front of them and they hit it. They were able to drive home, but the insurance company "totalled" the car. The hog got up and ran away.
     
  17. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    C'mon, guys, answer up:

    This is serious! A weapon is a weapon is a weapon! (apologies to Miss Stein) Sportin' purposes, self-defense purposes, military purposes, that-looks-cool-in-my-collection purposes, who cares? The right to keep and bear arms is seamless! What if someone thinks of a use for a bayonet (or other weapon) which no one else has yet thought of? Would that make the new function automatically evil, just because it's not on the approved list?



















    1
     
  18. Bainx

    Bainx member

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    recal, welcome aboard! And yes, I would have paid good money to see your Mom's face when the bayonet was extended!:D
    Kind of like when I extend the Mosin M44 bayonet at the firing range.
     
  19. 45R

    45R Member

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    I dont see a difference in having a bayonet vs. having a spear. You can get really sharp objects attached to a bambo stick in a martial arts catalog? The effect is the same it is just not attached to a rifle.......:confused:
     
  20. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    Other things being equal, (i.e. the other fellow's rifle being empty) a spear works better. It can be _longer_.:D
     
  21. OEF_VET

    OEF_VET Member

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    Sunray,

    We've got much the same problem down here. When we'd do a parade with fixed bayonets, the First Sergeant (equal to your RSM IIRC) would constantly be reminding us to be mindful of our bayonets. Guys tended to pass out from the heat, making it kinda dangerous to be standing nearby.

    Frank
     
  22. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    You know if there is a problem today with guys cutting each other by accident with the bayonet, it must really have been a problem in the 1700-1800s. All they had were wool uniforms back then. :uhoh: Knowledge about dehydration - baah! That and heat prostration must await medical science's discovery & acknowledgement of such events before it can happen. Otherwise, it's just shirking ;) and if they're really sick, we'll bleed 'em. :scrutiny:
     
  23. CGofMP

    CGofMP Member

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    Bayonets Are NOT Needed By Civilians

    Folks, I am sorry but you are all just plain WRONG on this bayonet thing...

    It is just impossible for me to understand why ANY civilian would find the need to obtain or own a bayonet. I think that you guys may have some growing up to do here... there is no possible civilian need for a bayonet!

    I have made my views much more clear and have written about this extensively on this Webpage (Click Here to view) and I'd like to encourage all of you to rethink this John Wayne mentality and perhaps even join me in This TRUE solution to the gun and military equipment problem which so many sophomoric adult males find themselves involved in.

    Truly I think you should all join me in making this solution to the bayonet problem work for the betterment of our fellow citizens.


    Thanks.

    Charles
     
  24. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Charles,

    regarding the historic use of bayonet, besides being a useful tool for foraging (when the British Light Division marched out of Badajoz, they carried bread, hams, tongues and other perishables on their bayonets), it also served as a tent stake or as a candleholder (during the Civil War). Using the honored bayonet for serving pate is out of place.:scrutiny: First, the bayonet may be too long. Second, the bayonet is better used to carve the turkey. Last, you can still serve dinner rolls on one. Pan (bread) ala Light Division. :cool: It's a good way to teach the kids from grabbing too. ;)

    Gary
     
  25. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    Can I get an M9 Bayonet for my M9 Beretta?
     
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