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Why You Must Know Your Target... Even In Texas

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Fred Fuller, May 9, 2009.

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  1. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    Please read the article at the link posted with a portion of the text, below. The snip from the text is included under provisions of fair use.

    According to other reports, the incident happened at approximately 9pm. - http://www.dailysentinel.com/news/content/gen/ap/TX_Off_Road_Shooting.html

    lpl
    =======

    http://www.wtop.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1671999

    Texas boy, 7, dies after shot in mistaken trespass
    May 9, 2009 - 3:22pm

    These May 7, 2009 booking photos released by the Liberty County, Texas, Sheriff's Office show Gayle and Sheila Muhs who have been charged with shooting four people, including a 7-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl, who they mistakenly thought were trespassing on their property Thursday night. The victims were off-roading near Dayton, Texas, when the couple opened fire, according to officials. (AP Photo/Liberty County Sheriff's Office)

    HOUSTON (AP) - A 7-year-old boy who was allegedly shot in the head by a couple who thought he and three other people were trespassing on their property died Saturday, authorities said.

    Donald Coffey Jr. died Saturday morning at a Houston hospital, less than two days after the boy was struck in the head by shotgun pellets, Liberty County Sheriff's Cpl. Hugh Bishop said.

    Sheila Muhs and her husband, Gayle Muhs, both 45, were charged with second-degree felony counts of aggravated assault in the shootings Thursday. They were being held at Liberty County Jail with bail set at $25,000 each and had not yet retained an attorney, Bishop said.

    Bishop said the district attorney could upgrade the charges to murder on Monday, but investigators were "still trying to get the circumstances behind the incident."

    The boy, his 5-year-old sister, their father and a family friend were off-roading near a residential area about 40 miles northeast of Houston when they were shot after stopping so the children could go to the bathroom.

    Authorities said the couple fired after they mistakenly thought the group was trespassing on their property.

    Bishop said the area includes a dirt road, trees and overgrown brush and that it wasn't uncommon for people to go off-roading there. The Houston Chronicle reported that a sign in front of the suspects' home reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivers will be reshot!! Smile I will."

    Liberty County Chief Deputy Ken DeFoor said Sheila Muhs fired a 12-gauge shotgun once, then handed it to her husband, who also fired once.

    DeFoor said Sheila Muhs then called 911 and told the dispatcher: "They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them."

    DeFoor said the levee belonged to the subdivision and was not private property.

    Bishop said there was no indication the unarmed victims did anything threatening toward the Muhs. /snip/
     
  2. Jdude

    Jdude Member

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    "Liberty County Chief Deputy Ken DeFoor said Sheila Muhs fired a 12-gauge shotgun once, then handed it to her husband, who also fired once." Umm... why the second shot? Did they fail to de-ass the area fast enough? Did they approach the gun holders?

    "DeFoor said the levee belonged to the subdivision and was not private property."
    Was there a clear indication of where the property line was?

    DeFoor said Sheila Muhs then called 911 and told the dispatcher: "They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them."

    This really sounds like murder to me.

    However, as usual, the news reports fail to provide enough details to make an informed and educated decision.
     
  3. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    Well there you have it. I thought shooting for simple tresspassing makes no sense. Some folks feel it is just. A simple hey get off my property would have likely worked. I hope they can live with them selves. Tactics in this case = FAIL

    hmm shooting unarmed children and unarmed adults.........I think I can make a fair decision here.
     
  4. Dark Skies

    Dark Skies Member

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    Except they weren't even on the Muhs property = double fail.
     
  5. hangovur

    hangovur Member

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    based upon that (limited info) they should be charged with 2nd degree murder. If it is really true.


    Trespassing is not a crime punishable by death in ANY instance unless they are clearly meaning to do you harm. Its times like this I wish tar and feathering were still around.
     
  6. B yond

    B yond Member

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    This is disgusting.

    Crimes like this should be punished very severely.

    I just can't imagine the morality that allows these people to justify shooting a family over suspected property damage to themselves.

    I'm 100% against gun control, and 100% for punishing people who misuse firearms like this to the full extent of the law (and extending that extent).
     
  7. sidheshooter

    sidheshooter Member

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    What a couple of malevolent fools.

    Fail indeed. I hope that they enjoy their new home in separate correctional facilities.
     
  8. TAB

    TAB Member

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    once again... should vs could( assuming it was a legal shoot, does not sound like it)
     
  9. Hungry Seagull

    Hungry Seagull member

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    We caught this on our news and it's just unacceptable really... this whole thing.

    Just sad.:(

    The thing that made me turn away was the way it was reported that one handed the weapon to the other after firing so the other can have a go. It make me sick.

    I hope the System treats them with very cold and damp cells in winter and roasting hot in the summer real close to a very high wall with people walking upon it.

    I call it one count of murder one each.
     
  10. Tamren

    Tamren Member

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    Murder 2 in my opinion, I can't imagine shooting someone over simple trespassing.
     
  11. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I will be shocked if it doesn't turn out that these 2 morons have rap sheets already and are probably not even supposed to own guns.
     
  12. Tim Burke

    Tim Burke Member

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    Good post. Thanks, Lee. I see that the media has noted the wording on their no trespassing sign.
    Agreed. They look like meth heads.
     
  13. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    nice mug shots bet you there was a bac in the shooters
    hope the jury breaks it off in em
     
  14. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Yes, the media did note their sign. Maybe those of us who have always counseled to not use such "humorous" signs, bumperstickers, tee shirts, engraved guns, etcetera aren't just old maids with a case of the vapors.
    These two cretins are in a great deal of trouble right now and that sign is going to haunt their defense (such as it is).
     
  15. bottom shelf

    bottom shelf Member

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    2nd degree? Looks to me like they've been planning for a while.
     
  16. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    If it was my kid they killed, they would pray to go to jail. May God keep this child and prayers go to his family.

    This makes me enraged. We fight hard, ....so very hard for our fundamental right to protection. This [sorry] couple gives the antis exactly what they want.

    I hope both the Muhs suffer for the rest of their lives, and after.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2009
  17. Aw4g63

    Aw4g63 Member

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    Sounds like they wanted to go down together. Maybe one person shot both shots and they claimed they each did? Just a thought.

    Either way, it's disgusting.
     
  18. newbie4help

    newbie4help Member

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    This is not "armchair quarterbacking" or anything....IT IS INSANE, IMMORAL, AND SUPREMELY IDIOTIC to shoot somebody MERELY for trespassing. These people should be severely punished.

    Note the "merely." EVEN IF you are protected by law, the odds of making a mistake are simply too high, not to mention that it's evil to do it.

    It sounds like they had a big property. They had absolutely no reason to shoot these poor children. If somebody is inside your home or threatening you that is an entirely different matter, but even if somebody's in your home you have to try to assess the situation (what if they're drunk and confused?). Not even a warning shot here (although that too would've been way overblown and supremely idiotic)? Wow, just wow.

    Rebel flag and some idiotic sign saying they'll shoot people? Human garbage.
     
  19. Roadwild17

    Roadwild17 Member

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    Based on the info given, it sounds like they were waiting for a chance to kill someone. Remember the guy who shot 2 bgs breaking into his neighbors house. He got away with it because they ran onto his property. Remember Texas has a castle doctrine, I'm not a lawyer and really don't know what it specifically says.

    I think they figured something along the lines of "Hey, they are on our property, lets get'em!" (Just my speculation)

    Regardless, it sounds like they royally [messed] up.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2009
  20. nitetrane98

    nitetrane98 Member

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    Without breaking out the 6" brush,(there are people like them everywhere) Liberty Co, TX area is possibly the Appalachian mountain hillbilly stereotype version of Texas. Unless I miss my bet, there's a meth lab in the vicinity.
    I picked up a couple of prisoners we had warrants on there on occasion and it was like an old western movie where a stranger rides into town and somebody says, "You ain't from around these parts, are ya' mister?"

    Now you S. Texas guys remember what I said about the broad brush. But you know what I'm talking about.
     
  21. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Prepare to be shocked.

    This is much more likely now:

    Based upon this:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/2398615/Couple-allegedly-shot-children-for-trespassing

    Two time loser normally indicates alcohol abuse.
    So from the S&T standpoint who should cover while your 5 and 7 year old children go pee? Because apparently no where is safe.
     
  22. MisterMike

    MisterMike Member

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    Disgusting and despicable.

    I'm not sure, though, that there's much to be learned from this about "strategies and tactics." The stupidity and cruelty exhibited by this pair take this far beyond anything a rational person would contemplate under these circumstances. This isn't about defensive use of a firearm . . . it's about murder.
     
  23. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    I would say it is just as important to know what is your land, when it is trespassing, when it is appropriate to warn, when it is appropriate to pull the trigger... and when to put down the bottle, syringe, pill bottle, pipe, or other drug/ alcohol accessories. this is a tragic and sickening story.
     
  24. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    The Strategies and Tactics issue is that one shouldn't be so flip about the use of deadly force, in conversation at the gun shop, online or anywhere else. A look at a lot of old threads, especially those dealing with Texas deadly force laws, you will find many members who advocated similar actions.
     
  25. DAVIDSDIVAD

    DAVIDSDIVAD member

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    I absolutely despise idiots who think it's ok to kill someone for going onto their property.

    Having been in a car that accidentally drove onto someone's (we assumed) property and hightailing it after we heard the crack, I can tell you, we would left with a "Get off my lawn!"

    There is NO reason to shoot at someone for trespassing on land.
     
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