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Will a .44 Special.......

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Archangel14, Nov 14, 2012.

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  1. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    traveling at 850 fps penetrate a medium size hog (say 150 pounds, chest shot) with enough ummphfff within 100 yards to kill it DRT?

    I've read through some recent posts where I get the impression that big bore bullets (.44 mag, ,45LC) traveling at sub-1,000 fps are still very good game bullets for creatures like hogs. Am I incorrect here? I always assumed that anything traveling under 1,000 fps should not be used on medium size and larger game (why I assumed this I'll never know). Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
     
  2. NOLAEMT

    NOLAEMT Member

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    ( think it would be marginal, depending on bullet weight. if it is standard 220ish grain 44 special i would say no. 350 grain? probably would kill it, but short of artillery, just about anything will run a little ways.
     
  3. firesky101

    firesky101 Member

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  4. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    DRT with a chest shot? Not with that load.

    DRT with a head/neck shot? Definitely.
     
  5. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    There is something about slow and heavy that works when it comes to dealing with this type of question.
    I believe the yardage mentioned by Elmer Keith was about 600 when he killed a deer with his 44 magnum pistol. The bullet he said penitrated thru the chest cavity. A long talked about shot , and I won't get into that aspect here.

    What I will say is that I certainly would not call Elmer Keith a liar, and I believe the shot was made (again the details need not be discussed here). What is applicable to your question is that penitration of the 44 Special at 100 Yards should easily match or exceed the shot of Elmer's on a deer with the 44 magnum.

    The heavy bullet at even relatively low FPS has good penitration and seems to dump its energy with efficiency into the target.

    Same is true for the 45 acp which is a well respected and proven self defence round.

    Bottom line is that I see no reason why the 44 Special should not perform well on pigs at 100 yards.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  6. critter

    critter Member

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    Have no fear. It will work on hogs of the size you mention given good shot placement.
     
  7. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    With a good 240-250gr Keith bullet, generic SWC or LBT, deader than a hammer. Although nothing is guaranteed to stop them in their tracks.

    An old standby is the so-called "Skeeter load", consisting of Keith's 250gr bullet over 7.5gr Unique for 950fps. A wonderful all around load and good medicine for targets of opportunity.
     
  8. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    Yes, it will kill them, but most of the time not DRT with a chest shot as the OP asked about.
     
  9. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    Well, i had paper targets stapled on an old dry pallet, probably an oak pallet. I shot the target with my 4" 44spl. using factory loads at 55 yards and guess what? Those bullets bounced off the oak boards. lol

    I pulled out my 4" 357 and it didn't matter what board you shot, those mid range 357's zipped right on through!

    I then shot that pallet with 1200 fps loads out of my 44 mag., and all of those bullets zipped right on through too...

    SO, take that info any way you want, but i'd choose my 357 loaded with mid range loads or higher EVERY time to any of my 44 spl.'s loaded to 900 and under!!

    DM
     
  10. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    DRT not likely. 15 seconds and 50 to 100 yards away after blood pressure reaches 0 absolutely.
     
  11. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Not me! I find the .357 to be terribly overrated and a distant second to even a mildly loaded big bore like the .44Spl. Which, I might add, will do its thang without making your ears bleed.
     
  12. brnmw

    brnmw Member

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    I will disagree with the .357 Mag. being overrated.... The .357 Mag. would not be as popular and as popular as long as it has if it was in fact: "Overrrated". Sorry. :scrutiny:

    As for the .44 Spl. just get some Buffalo Bore 180 gr. JHP's and practice for a good clean accurate as possible shot and you will be okay.
     
  13. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Popularity rarely means much. Particularly when most shooters today don't make it past the indoor range. Like I said, the .357 requires full steam velocity and expansion to be a reliable killer. The various .44's and .45's do not. Even a mild 900fps load will be a far more consistent killer than any .357 load and it won't make your ears bleed doing it.


    Seriously???
     
  14. brnmw

    brnmw Member

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    Okay.. CraigC "Seriously???"> So I am going to guess that no matter what load would be suggested by myself or anyone else at this point the fact that "Practice for an accurate clean shot" is ridicules is what I am gathering from you? First off in reality I would not practice a handgun shot for anything out beyond 50-60 yds. to begin with so that really is not an issue for me anyway. So I assume you will claim a .44 Spl. at 180 gr. JHP/SP is in fact not sufficient enough to hunt Hog? (You sounded pro .44 Spl. so again with the "Seriously??? comment I am not understanding).... Oh, let's not forget the "Overrated .357 Mag." I would not want to forget that one either. (I suppose next you will tell me that a .44 Spl. and .357 Mag. are also not sufficient for taking down a 300 lb. man wearing a thick leather jacket either. Okay, sorry for putting words in your mouth that was a little out of line but still would have been a stupid statement to make.) I guess myself and everyone else who has actually taken down a hog or two in their life with a .357 Mag. or .44 Spl. just did not see it really work.:rolleyes: How about here is one for you... how about a 158 gr. Winchester Super-X .357 Mag. round I have used before that worked well, and my father years ago did take down a hog with a .44 Spl. HP load. (Sorry I don't remember what type just HP is all.) So I can't really say I understand your "Seriously???" comment. Too what are you questioning you were kind of vague, just curious? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  15. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    I said that because you recommended a lightweight jacketed self defense load for hogs. Which is a clear indication of a great many things. None of which are good.
     
  16. brnmw

    brnmw Member

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    So you are saying that 180 gr. HP .44 Spl. load flying at a hog doing roughly 900 fps and at around 400+ ft.lbs. is going to do absolutely nothing?

    ***I have pulled up some numbers right quick just for a quick comparison (Not to mention some experience which is what I am sure you seem to be hinting at ;) )

    As we all know not every bullet and ballistic will be identical, but...: (#'s pulled off an ammo mftr. website)

    .44 Special Ammo - 180 gr. J.H.P. (1,150 fps/ 543 ft.lbs.)

    .357 Magnum Ammo - 158 gr. J.H.C. (1,475fps/ 763 ft. lbs.)

    10mm Ammo - 220 gr. Hard Cast - FN (1,200 fps/ 703 ft. lbs.)

    Given the variables here and there they all no matter what weight or type of bullet construction all seems to be flying in and around 1,000 fps. And muster between 500-700 ft. lbs. of energy. (In my experience all of these mentioned would do serious damage to whatever the bullet hits.)> you can criticize or speculate my experience all you want... I don't care. So I guess if we really want to be absolutely scientifically accurate for the sake of further argument just take a 40mm Grenade M203 launcher attached to your AR-15
    Because that .223 Rem. "64 gr." Lightweight Winchester Razorback XT/ “Hollow Point”: Velocity @ 3020fps. (okay that’s fast) 1,296 ft.lbs. @ the muzzle (which also means it's not doing that once it gets to its target mind you) is also going to fail. So you touched on "Light weight" (64 gr.) and "Self-Defense"(HP) construction. I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly. Okay, I guess I will just go back to my saved Cabela's XBOX game then.... "Oh, look I just shot a Grizzly bear in the head @ 100 yds. with a .308 Winchester and he just mauled me... I guess next time I should try the .30-'06 "That will teach him!" Its Good thing I saved my game! :rolleyes:

    (Just for the record I am not criticizing anyone that plays those games, they do kind of pass the time when hunting season is over.) :)
     
  17. adelbridge

    adelbridge Member

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    You will certainly get penetration and possibly an exit wound. Big boars have a thick shield and I can often get an arrow with only 80-90 ft lbs to hit both lungs and often pass through. You are not going to create a massive wound channel with .45 lc and blood trail will be minimum. I am certain you can kill a hog with it but they tend to run and run far so good luck tracking it in the dark when they show themselves. I have been down that road before, skip all the hypothetical and try it out- I would be pissed if I spent hours in the dark and cold to come home with nothing.
     
  18. brnmw

    brnmw Member

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    Right There!
    (Life is a live and learn and if at first you don't succeed try again.)
     
  19. Archangel14

    Archangel14 Member

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    I have to disagree with adelbridge. My experience is with smaller, faster rounds (30-06 and such) and I have no experience with a big bore rifle. But everything I'm reading leads to me believe that a 45LC moving at 1,000-1,100 fps will pass through anything walking in North America, assuming you use the right bullet. If I plug a 150 pound hog with a nice quarter shot, I'm led to believe - accurately it seems - that a 45LC hard cast will leave a substantial wound channel. Am I incorrect?
     
  20. brianr23

    brianr23 Member

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    I shot a 160lb hog with a .45 colt Blackhawk. 225 grain JSP at 1100 fps. He was DRT but I hit him just over the right eye when he was facing me at 20 yds.
     
  21. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    The 45 long Colt was designed to pass through a horse at 100 yards. I know the black powder loading and a 260 grain bullet will pass through a whitetailed deer, sternum to ham. Never shot a hod but I would not hesitate to use the 45 LC. Loaded the same, the 44 Special should perform the same. I avoidhollow points and light for caliber bullets for handgun hunting, preferring standard or a bit heavier, cast bullets.
     
  22. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    Let me back up a second and ask the OP, are you using a rifle or handgun? It doesn't make a lot of difference but 800 fps from a rifle load is fairly slow.
     
  23. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    Hollow points are not ideal hunting rounds out of pistols. They typically expand far too fast, and fragment rather quickly. Against a slightly more "armored" target like a pig, they are a poor choice, regardless of their velocity or energy numbers which are what you seem to be basing your recommendation on. What is needed is a good hard cast bullet.

    And rifle rounds do not behave nor wound in the exact same manner as handgun rounds. To be honest though, that Razorback XT round is an overhyped marketing round. I would not recommend it, and I don't. The Nosler Partition is a great round, for any type of game, and will hold together much better than the pistol rounds that you are recommending.
     
  24. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    No but it ain't gonna get the job done. Velocity and energy mean nothing if you don't use the right bullet and a 180gr JHP is absolutely NOT the right bullet.


    Wrong bullet. Too light, too lightly constructed. A 240-250gr Keith bullet would be a vastly superior choice, regardless of velocity.


    Wrong bullet. Weight is adequate, construction is not. A 173gr Keith bullet or 180gr LBT would be a vastly superior choice. The 180gr Gold Dot would work fine as well.


    Right bullet. Proper weight and construction. You can do no better in this caliber. The 200gr XTP is not bad but all the rest tend to open too quickly.
     
  25. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Some people can learn from other's mistakes. Others seem to want to make all the mistakes on their own.
    There's some sage advise around, maybe you could study up on sectional density and how it relares to terminal ballistics, pay particular attention to what effect it has on penatration.
    For the record if I was faced with a 300# guy with a heavy coat your dang skippy I'd prefer something other than that 180gr 44 special load. I want better penatration.
     
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