steelyblue
Member
I like the spraying the buddy idea. I would also pour a little honey on him too, just to make sure he doesn't pass him up for the tastier treat!!!
"Will a .45ACP kill a Grizzly?"
- Thread starter HHank
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M47 Dragon
Member
This is my only bear story:
Went camping with my buddy up in the Sierra Nevada range years ago. We hiked into the woods about 7 or 8 miles and found a great little place to set up camp - 100 yards or so off of the path we were hiking, a gentle downslope all the way - lead to a cliff overlooking a deep gorge with a stream running way down below. It was beautiful!
Woke up the next morning and tried to get a campfire going. One of us noticed the bear walking along that slope about 50 or 60 yards away. He was walking parallel to us, not toward us. Something made him look our way, and he turned straight toward us. He was still going slow. My buddy, a cop, starts ruffling through his pack looking for his 9mm and I start work on getting my 12 gauge to the ready. It was strapped to my pack, so I had to take my eyes off the bear momentarily to free the shotgun. My friend is cursing under his breath because he can't find his gun. I finally free my shotgun, which has alternating 000 buck and slugs in the tube, and look back up at the bear. He wasn't charging, but he wasn't going slow anymore either... kinda rumbling toward us. We had nowhere to go except over the cliff.
This is a true story... I have a witness!
I racked the shotgun and the bear stopped on a dime. He was about 20 yards away. He stopped, looked at us, and then turned and ran back the way he came.
We both had a shot of Jack Daniels at breakfast to calm our nerves, and to this day we can tell a good bear story about a beast that knew what the sound of a racking shotgun meant.
Went camping with my buddy up in the Sierra Nevada range years ago. We hiked into the woods about 7 or 8 miles and found a great little place to set up camp - 100 yards or so off of the path we were hiking, a gentle downslope all the way - lead to a cliff overlooking a deep gorge with a stream running way down below. It was beautiful!
Woke up the next morning and tried to get a campfire going. One of us noticed the bear walking along that slope about 50 or 60 yards away. He was walking parallel to us, not toward us. Something made him look our way, and he turned straight toward us. He was still going slow. My buddy, a cop, starts ruffling through his pack looking for his 9mm and I start work on getting my 12 gauge to the ready. It was strapped to my pack, so I had to take my eyes off the bear momentarily to free the shotgun. My friend is cursing under his breath because he can't find his gun. I finally free my shotgun, which has alternating 000 buck and slugs in the tube, and look back up at the bear. He wasn't charging, but he wasn't going slow anymore either... kinda rumbling toward us. We had nowhere to go except over the cliff.
This is a true story... I have a witness!
I racked the shotgun and the bear stopped on a dime. He was about 20 yards away. He stopped, looked at us, and then turned and ran back the way he came.
We both had a shot of Jack Daniels at breakfast to calm our nerves, and to this day we can tell a good bear story about a beast that knew what the sound of a racking shotgun meant.
ETCss Phil McCrackin
Member
I know this has been beat to death and the only real use for a sidearm against griz is if your .338 Win Mag has a problem. But would you really be that underarmed with 200 grain hard cast SWC's loaded up to +P levels?
greenmtnguy
Member
I think that the 45 ACP +P *might* work, but you'd have to be very very quick - the trick would be to shove your hand down his mouth with the gun pointed up at the back of his throat and squeeze the trigger as fast as you can, hoping that the gun doesn't jam and he dies before he bites your arm off...
(sorry, couldn't resist)
;-)
(sorry, couldn't resist)
;-)
A man with a gun!
Member
Keep in mind that there are two types of bear attacks. Defensive and offensive. Bells can lead to an offensive bear attack by attracting attention to yourself. In Yellowstone they are generally refered to as "dinner bells" and have been falling out of favor with the backwoods folk.
Thanks to *ALL* for your replies to this dangerous question! I am new to this board and was not aware of previous posts on this topic.(nor about the legal dicussion restrictions). Judgeing from the answers, the information given may be "priceless" to some "novices" that think they know more than they do about running around in the woods! Understanding this potential problem might just be the *most* important (or certainly one of the most) knowlege we can carry with us. Thanks again, I learned a lot.
NRA MEMBER
NRA MEMBER
Zeede
Member
I'm confused, if guns are illegal in national parks, then how are folks carrying them around in Alaska? Or is it just in wilderness that is specifically designated as a "national park"?
Personally, I'd bring a M1 Garand. Screw .45 ACP, 44 mag, or anything like that. 30-06 all the way. Or if not, then a shotgun with 00 buck and slugs.
Cameron
Personally, I'd bring a M1 Garand. Screw .45 ACP, 44 mag, or anything like that. 30-06 all the way. Or if not, then a shotgun with 00 buck and slugs.
Cameron
I received this e-mail from the NRA yesterday morning:
Bush Administration to Propose New Rule
Regarding Right-to-Carry in National Parks
Friday, February 22, 2008
Fairfax, Va. - At the request of the Bush Administration and 51 members of the United States Senate led by Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID), the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service prohibition of firearms on agency land will be revised in the following weeks. The National Rifle Association (NRA) is leading the effort to amend the existing policy regarding the carrying and transportation of firearms in National Parks and wildlife refuges.
"Law-abiding citizens should not be prohibited from protecting themselves and their families while enjoying America's National Parks and wildlife refuges," said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. "Under this proposal, federal parks and wildlife refuges will mirror the state firearm laws for state parks. This is an important step in the right direction."
These new regulations, when finalized, will provide uniformity across our nation's federal lands and put an end to the patchwork of regulations that governed different lands managed by different federal agencies. In the past, only Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and Forest Service lands allowed the carrying of firearms, while National Park lands did not.
The current regulations on possession, carry or transportation of loaded or uncased firearms in national parks were proposed in 1982 and finalized in 1983. Similar restrictions apply in national wildlife refuges. The NRA believes it is time to amend those regulations to reflect the changed legal situation with respect to state laws on carrying firearms.
The effect of these now-outdated regulations on people who carry firearms for self-protection was far from the forefront at the time these regulations were adopted. As of the end of 1982, only six states routinely allowed citizens to carry handguns for self-defense. Currently, 48 states have a process for issuance of licenses or permits to allow law-abiding citizens to legally carry firearms for self-defense.
The move for regulatory change by the Administration will restore the rights of law-abiding gun owners who wish to transport and carry firearms for lawful purposes in most National Park lands and will make the laws consistent with state law where these lands are located. Fifty-one U.S. Senators from both parties sent a letter to the Department of Interior late last year supporting the move to render state firearms laws applicable to National Park lands.
"These changes will respect the Second Amendment rights of honest citizens, and we look forward to the issuance of a final rule this year," concluded Cox.
************
As for a .45 ACP, certain steel frame guns like the S&W 45xx series, can be modified to also shoot .45 Super. You can get 10mm velocities with a heavier bullet.
Bush Administration to Propose New Rule
Regarding Right-to-Carry in National Parks
Friday, February 22, 2008
Fairfax, Va. - At the request of the Bush Administration and 51 members of the United States Senate led by Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID), the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service prohibition of firearms on agency land will be revised in the following weeks. The National Rifle Association (NRA) is leading the effort to amend the existing policy regarding the carrying and transportation of firearms in National Parks and wildlife refuges.
"Law-abiding citizens should not be prohibited from protecting themselves and their families while enjoying America's National Parks and wildlife refuges," said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. "Under this proposal, federal parks and wildlife refuges will mirror the state firearm laws for state parks. This is an important step in the right direction."
These new regulations, when finalized, will provide uniformity across our nation's federal lands and put an end to the patchwork of regulations that governed different lands managed by different federal agencies. In the past, only Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and Forest Service lands allowed the carrying of firearms, while National Park lands did not.
The current regulations on possession, carry or transportation of loaded or uncased firearms in national parks were proposed in 1982 and finalized in 1983. Similar restrictions apply in national wildlife refuges. The NRA believes it is time to amend those regulations to reflect the changed legal situation with respect to state laws on carrying firearms.
The effect of these now-outdated regulations on people who carry firearms for self-protection was far from the forefront at the time these regulations were adopted. As of the end of 1982, only six states routinely allowed citizens to carry handguns for self-defense. Currently, 48 states have a process for issuance of licenses or permits to allow law-abiding citizens to legally carry firearms for self-defense.
The move for regulatory change by the Administration will restore the rights of law-abiding gun owners who wish to transport and carry firearms for lawful purposes in most National Park lands and will make the laws consistent with state law where these lands are located. Fifty-one U.S. Senators from both parties sent a letter to the Department of Interior late last year supporting the move to render state firearms laws applicable to National Park lands.
"These changes will respect the Second Amendment rights of honest citizens, and we look forward to the issuance of a final rule this year," concluded Cox.
************
As for a .45 ACP, certain steel frame guns like the S&W 45xx series, can be modified to also shoot .45 Super. You can get 10mm velocities with a heavier bullet.
Northalius
Member
If you can: Buy a 10mm Glock 20, load it up with Double Tap 200-230 gr. rounds, and you should be pretty well equipped against a bear (or bears).
Remember, always bring a few big bottles of bear spray (pepper spray). This helps against bears charging, and from a distance. They reach 30-40 feet. I've read great reports on this stuff; some said it was like the bear hit a brick wall after a full charge!
Let's imagine it doesn't work this well, it'll still be better than nothing else, on top of your bullets! So, bring both gun and pepper spray with you... ALWAYS! Pepper spray is good for you (and your wife) to have in the city, too. Works well against most people.
Anyway, people (including Ted Nugent) go hunting for big game with their Glock 20's... so that says a lot.
The 10mm is a superior round compared to the .45; it's even superior to the .357 Magnum!
Test a Glock 20 out at the range, with Double Tap ammo. See how you like it.
Remember, always bring a few big bottles of bear spray (pepper spray). This helps against bears charging, and from a distance. They reach 30-40 feet. I've read great reports on this stuff; some said it was like the bear hit a brick wall after a full charge!
Let's imagine it doesn't work this well, it'll still be better than nothing else, on top of your bullets! So, bring both gun and pepper spray with you... ALWAYS! Pepper spray is good for you (and your wife) to have in the city, too. Works well against most people.
Anyway, people (including Ted Nugent) go hunting for big game with their Glock 20's... so that says a lot.
The 10mm is a superior round compared to the .45; it's even superior to the .357 Magnum!
Test a Glock 20 out at the range, with Double Tap ammo. See how you like it.
geophysicishooter
Member
LMAO!!!!!!
I thought you were going to call him Mr Bell Pepper!! You had me cracking up!!
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
HM2PAC
Member
Tuner,
Great link. I love that story.
Yesterday at the barbershop I read an account of a bear attack in a magazine.
In both accounts, and in others, the bear "Gets Lost" in the scope.
In no account did it seem as though anyone would have had time to get their BUG if they had one.
Great link. I love that story.
Yesterday at the barbershop I read an account of a bear attack in a magazine.
In both accounts, and in others, the bear "Gets Lost" in the scope.
In no account did it seem as though anyone would have had time to get their BUG if they had one.
jahwarrior
Member
"As for black bears, I don't think they attack people."....
this is why black bears are so dangerous, epecially in PA.
this is why black bears are so dangerous, epecially in PA.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Some fairly recent studies have shown that Blacks are more likely to stalk and hunt people...as a food source...than the Grizzlys or the big Browns, which generally attack in self-defense or a territorial dispute. Of course, all females with cubs are extremely dangerous, regardless of the species.
jaysouth
Member
Tuner,
Last year there was a 7 year old girl killed by a black in a TN state park. It stalked her and drug her out of a tent.
I have perfected the perfect method of foiling a grizzly, large brown bear or polar bar attack.
I developed this when we took my wife, her sister and her mother on a camping trip to the Flat Head Lake area of Montana. I gave each of the women a pan, a large spoon and a whistle.
In the event of a bear confrontation, the women were to make as much noise as possible and advance toward the bear banging pot and pans and blowing whistles. More the better if they screamed invectives at the bear/s while they advanced.(are women good at this or what?)
My job was to run perpendicular to the axis of attack in order to draw the bear away from the women.
They never did figure it out.
Musta been a plan cuz the bears stayed as far away from us as possible.
Last year there was a 7 year old girl killed by a black in a TN state park. It stalked her and drug her out of a tent.
I have perfected the perfect method of foiling a grizzly, large brown bear or polar bar attack.
I developed this when we took my wife, her sister and her mother on a camping trip to the Flat Head Lake area of Montana. I gave each of the women a pan, a large spoon and a whistle.
In the event of a bear confrontation, the women were to make as much noise as possible and advance toward the bear banging pot and pans and blowing whistles. More the better if they screamed invectives at the bear/s while they advanced.(are women good at this or what?)
My job was to run perpendicular to the axis of attack in order to draw the bear away from the women.
They never did figure it out.
Musta been a plan cuz the bears stayed as far away from us as possible.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
While I don't frequent this kind of country (King of the Wild Front Lawn, as it were
), I still fear two-legged predatory animals much more than four- (or no-) legged ones.
), I still fear two-legged predatory animals much more than four- (or no-) legged ones.If you see a loose bear cub, beat feet in the opposite direction, 'cause Mama ain't far away.1911Tuner said:
I have spent about 1500+ miles backpacking through AZ,CA, ID, MT, And Alaska and have had about 30 or so run In's with Bears (Grizz, Black) and I carry a Glock 21 Strong Side / Bear Spray Week Side on my Belt.. But the Scary things i have run into are 6 Javalenas Tearing apart my campsite in AZ and a very aggressive badger in ID, a territorial beaver in Alaska. Now those were scary. and the snakes i hate snakes.
LAK Supply
Member
Amen to that.... the chances of encountering the many other varieties of "annoying" animals and humans are much greater than encountering a bear in most cases. Up here I'm more worried about a pissed off moose or pack of wolves than I am of a bear.
The 10mm is adequate to stop anything you shoot right; McNett has done tests with his HCFN gas checked loads and found that they do about 24 1x4 pieces of pine in a baffle box out of a stock Glock barrel. The Glock is my first choice for most places as I value capacity with adequate power over 5-6 rounds with 1.5-2x the power. When I'm in the Black Hills or the Big Horns my G20 is on my hip with hardcasts and a 6" Jarvis barrel.
If you call Double Tap and speak with Mike McNett he'll tell you about some of the photos his customers have sent him... 1000+ lb moose and bison with his 200-230 gr 10mm stuff, and a pig down in Texarkana that was 350 lbs or something... shot right above it's pooper and the bullet exited the chest as was not recovered. In a survival situation or and 90% of the situations I will encounter in the mountains I'll take the 15+1 of adequate over the heavier Redhawk.
If I'm going to be running around in the Tetons for more than a few minutes, I do carry my 44 mag with 320 gr hardcasts at @ 1250 fps. That's the largest gun I care to pack; those SRH and X-frames are so damn big they're unpleasant to carry for long. An adequate gun that stays on your hip is better than a monster that's sitting on the camp table while you're down at the stream!
As far as the bears go.... as some people here have noted it's very rare for a bear encounter to go bad. If that's the case, I would take a .45 over nothing, but the 45 acp does not penetrate well. Penetration is going to be the second factor, right after "can you hit what you're aiming at under stress." If you must carry your 45 at least pick up some hardcast +P stuff so you have a chance.
There are documented occurrences where brown bears have been killed by 9mm and 38 spl. IIRC, the 9mm was a guy who was in the middle of a river and shot the brown that was attacking his friend on the bank.... hit it in the eye or something. The 38 spl was a hiker who fired (blindly) directly into the bear's ear while the critter was on top of him chewing on his other arm. Guy was in the fetal position and reached down and got his piece loose, then killed the bear with a lucky, blind, desperate shot.
There is no sure thing for a bear... other than a vehicle-mounted mini gun I suppose. Your best bet is to know where you're at, pay attention to what's going on around you, and not panic if you see something that may eat you. The gun should be your last-resort.
The 10mm is adequate to stop anything you shoot right; McNett has done tests with his HCFN gas checked loads and found that they do about 24 1x4 pieces of pine in a baffle box out of a stock Glock barrel. The Glock is my first choice for most places as I value capacity with adequate power over 5-6 rounds with 1.5-2x the power. When I'm in the Black Hills or the Big Horns my G20 is on my hip with hardcasts and a 6" Jarvis barrel.
If you call Double Tap and speak with Mike McNett he'll tell you about some of the photos his customers have sent him... 1000+ lb moose and bison with his 200-230 gr 10mm stuff, and a pig down in Texarkana that was 350 lbs or something... shot right above it's pooper and the bullet exited the chest as was not recovered. In a survival situation or and 90% of the situations I will encounter in the mountains I'll take the 15+1 of adequate over the heavier Redhawk.
If I'm going to be running around in the Tetons for more than a few minutes, I do carry my 44 mag with 320 gr hardcasts at @ 1250 fps. That's the largest gun I care to pack; those SRH and X-frames are so damn big they're unpleasant to carry for long. An adequate gun that stays on your hip is better than a monster that's sitting on the camp table while you're down at the stream!
As far as the bears go.... as some people here have noted it's very rare for a bear encounter to go bad. If that's the case, I would take a .45 over nothing, but the 45 acp does not penetrate well. Penetration is going to be the second factor, right after "can you hit what you're aiming at under stress." If you must carry your 45 at least pick up some hardcast +P stuff so you have a chance.
There are documented occurrences where brown bears have been killed by 9mm and 38 spl. IIRC, the 9mm was a guy who was in the middle of a river and shot the brown that was attacking his friend on the bank.... hit it in the eye or something. The 38 spl was a hiker who fired (blindly) directly into the bear's ear while the critter was on top of him chewing on his other arm. Guy was in the fetal position and reached down and got his piece loose, then killed the bear with a lucky, blind, desperate shot.
There is no sure thing for a bear... other than a vehicle-mounted mini gun I suppose. Your best bet is to know where you're at, pay attention to what's going on around you, and not panic if you see something that may eat you. The gun should be your last-resort.
1911RjB
Member
I'd personally go with a S&W .460 mag, S&W does have a Bear Survival Kit does it not? But I think with the right ammo, and shot placement a .45 will do the job. But I'd rather not test that out my self, IF you decide to have some one let us know ;]...
biscuitninja
Member
- Joined
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- 353
A .45 is better than nothing. But I'd probably carry some pepper spray, while it won't STOP a bear in its tracks, it might give it enough annoyance to turn it around.
With that said, almost any hike that i've been on, I taken my Mosin Nagat M44 with some yellow tip heavy rounds (steel core heavy rounds). I've also taken it when my wife and I went to Alaska (she grew up there). Her friends and family were duly impressed that i'd pack enough hardware and not be a "city boy"... ha ha. While I didn't have a chance to ever use it as it was intended, a moose did decide that we might have food on us. I fired a round or two "noise wise" to scare it away.... But i was REAL nervous to have to take a shot if I had to.... (The wife got her 16 rounds of 9mm readly also...).
Anyways good luck
-bix
With that said, almost any hike that i've been on, I taken my Mosin Nagat M44 with some yellow tip heavy rounds (steel core heavy rounds). I've also taken it when my wife and I went to Alaska (she grew up there). Her friends and family were duly impressed that i'd pack enough hardware and not be a "city boy"... ha ha. While I didn't have a chance to ever use it as it was intended, a moose did decide that we might have food on us. I fired a round or two "noise wise" to scare it away.... But i was REAL nervous to have to take a shot if I had to.... (The wife got her 16 rounds of 9mm readly also...).
Anyways good luck
-bix
Neither bear spray or a .45 are 100% effective. However, bear spray would be considerably more effective than a .45.
If it was my life on the line, I'd go with the bear spray. Not to mention that the bear spray wouldn't get you in trouble with the law like a firearm would.
If it was my life on the line, I'd go with the bear spray. Not to mention that the bear spray wouldn't get you in trouble with the law like a firearm would.
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